Who is using which mod?

[Guest Ront]

Given that there are two different mods in this section, I dont understand if people have actually moved from ir to irr 

 

Or 

 

There are still some people using the original ir

 

Beside, the same questions could be applied to Sr and Srr

[Bartimaeus]

9 hours ago, Guest Ront said:

Given that there are two different mods in this section, I dont understand if people have actually moved from ir to irr 

 

Or 

 

There are still some people using the original ir

 

Beside, the same questions could be applied to Sr and Srr

It's a lot of matter of personal taste. If you're content with the current official versions, and nothing that I wrote in the original posts to advertise them is convincing, then it only makes sense to stick with the official versions unless you're simply curious to see the differences.

[subtledoctor]

10 hours ago, Guest Ront said:

Given that there are two different mods in this section, I dont understand if people have actually moved from ir to irr 

FWIW I'm using SR and IR in a playthrough right now and they are working great.

IRR is not some kind of evolution of IR.  It is a separate mod.  You can consider it to be, essentially, similar to my "SubtleDoc's Random Tweaks" mod, which includes a number of tweaks designed to be installed in top of SR and IR.  Most of the changes involve my personal preferences, while some of them are closer to what I'd consider "fixes," but are not appropriate for inclusion in SR/IR because Demivrgvs is not around to discuss them.

IRR is basically the same as that - a distinct mod with distinct tweaks.  The main difference is, due to the way it was put together over a long time and due also to the fact that is it expressly meant to be installed with IR and would not work as a mod on its own, IRR includes the entirety of IR itself in its installer.  This fact (and, perhaps, the fact that the acronym is so close to IR's acronym) sometimes seems to confuse people.  But you should really think of it now as "IR vs. IRR," but rather as "IR vs. IR + IRR."  Just as you would think about my mod in your install as "IR + SD's Tweaks."

(The location of the IRR thread might also be confusing - the fact that it is in the IR forum rather than in Miscellaneous Mods or something like that.)

But I have to say, I and some others have recently put a shitload of work into SR and IR and they are in better shape than they ever have been, and I hope and think Demi would be proud of the mod's current state.

Edited July 30, 2020 by subtledoctor

[Guest Ront]

Thanks. If you check IR, it is said: last update 2017

And I thought that it was kinda abandoned.

 

It would be cool a table where spells between both mods are compared

 

Also, I noticed sometimes the description of the spell goes in the way of spells themselves. I would like to check properties. Not read jumble mumble

[Bartimaeus]

9 hours ago, Guest Ront said:

Thanks. If you check IR, it is said: last update 2017

And I thought that it was kinda abandoned.

 

It would be cool a table where spells between both mods are compared

 

Also, I noticed sometimes the description of the spell goes in the way of spells themselves. I would like to check properties. Not read jumble mumble

SRR has a mostly up-to-date readme that gives complete descriptions of components and spells, but I don't think SR's has been updated in a long, long time.

Here's a fun comparison of IR and IRR I'd like to make:

Left side is IRR's items without any further modifications in a BG2EE game; right side is the latest official version of IR's in the same situation with all the same items in the same exact spots. There is a matter of taste in using the BG2-style shields instead of the BG1 ones...but I also include BG1-style variants for EET games, and also I think @Salk made a mod to update items to their proper BG1 graphics where available if you prefer that (and as you can see, not all shields in the official version of IR have their correct paperdoll graphics - why does Shield of Falling Stars, a tower shield, have a buckler paperdoll graphic; why does Helm of Charm Protection's icon not match its paperdoll? This is due to unfortunate structural problems in how IR handles updating graphics since 1ppv4 was released, and then the EEs as well since then). Just one set of changes you might prefer from IRR - or not! There's also restored short bow, bastard sword, wakizashi, morning star, and flaming sword animations (in fact, IR's short sword paperdolls are misaligned entirely, as you can see in the third image).

Edited July 31, 2020 by Bartimaeus

[subtledoctor]

Yes: the short version of the history is, IR was designed for integration with 1PPv3, and then 1PPv4 made major changes that created some aesthetic imperfections in IR, and the EEs (partially) integrated 1PPv4, so the problem persists.  Nobody was able sit down and sort it out... until Bartimaeus. But his fixes are indelibly chained to innumerable personal changes to the functional side of IR. If you want the graphical improvements, you perforce must also accept his personal tweaks, whether you like them or not (and many are undocumented so there’s no easy to really tell). 

Me? I use IR and every time an elf holds a longsword, the weapon graphic in the paperdoll is incorrectly offset to the wrong part of the elf’s hand. I really could care less - I don’t particularly spend any time looking at the paperdolls in the inventory screen. I spend my time in the main UI playing the game. I use IR for the functional improvements in the way its magical items work. Demi & co. worked on those changes for years and involved players in an immense amount of discussion about all the changes. I really respect the method used to create IR, and I enjoy the outcome, and I don’t mind the minor graphical glitches. 

If you like IR and don’t mind little graphical glitches in the inventory screen, then you can use IR. Here is a version with a fix for every bug I could find reported since the last update in 2017. (Looks like the Shield of Falling Stars is not fixed? I can add that easily enough.)

If the graphical stuff really matters to you, and the details of the functional changes are not as important to you or you happen to like Bartimaeus’ changes, then you’re in luck: he has put a lot of work into something you will enjoy. Isn’t it nice that we have such options? 

Meantime, the mere fact of Bartimaeus’ project does not mean we cannot continue to improve the real IR (see above). I never used 1PP back in the day, and I don’t know anything about it. I am not competent to resolve IR’s little graphical glitches. But if anyone is competent to do such a thing, I am willing to help apply and integrate the fixes into IR (if such help would be useful).  Bartimaeus is focusing on his project but if anyone with such knowledge is willing to put time into the real IR, feel free to message me or start a thread here for collaboration. 

[Cahir]

For me personally the only gripe I have with IR or IRR is the vanilla-style item stat descriptions which doesn't mesh well with EE-style descriptions. I have fixed this for IRR for my personal use, but it's tiresome to apply those changes each time new version pops up. 

[Bartimaeus]

26 minutes ago, Cahir said:

For me personally the only gripe I have with IR or IRR is the vanilla-style item stat descriptions which doesn't mesh well with EE-style descriptions. I have fixed this for IRR for my personal use, but it's tiresome to apply those changes each time new version pops up. 

I hear you, but unfortunately, I just...straight up don't like the EE text style more than the IR text style. If I were to actually switch to the EEs, I would be converting the remaining BG2EE items to the IR style, not everything the other way around. Which I planned on doing anyways, but I saw the ridiculous amount of random BG2EE items they added, and I kind of lost motivation to do so after I finished BG1EE, .

[Guest Ront]

Thanks for the informations to everyone. Can you two post a computation between the two different styles you are referring to?

[Bartimaeus]

Top IR style, bottom EE style.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Bartimaeus

[Cahir]

6 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

I hear you, but unfortunately, I just...straight up don't like the EE text style more than the IR text style. If I were to actually switch to the EEs, I would be converting the remaining BG2EE items to the IR style, not everything the other way around. Which I planned on doing anyways, but I saw the ridiculous amount of random BG2EE items they added, and I kind of lost motivation to do so after I finished BG1EE, .

Yeah, I know I'm doomed here Fortunately applying changes from new IRR version to my fixed base tra file is much easier thanks to your tip to use WinMerge.

Besides I didn't suggest switching to EE altogether, rather to include EE text style for EE installations only and leave original IR descriptions for vanilla engine. The way @CamDawg did when he updated Weimar's Item Upgrade mod. I realize, though, that would be more job for you later, updating changes in both files. 

[Cahir]

2 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

Top IR style, bottom EE style.

It's not like that I find EE style superior to IR style, rather that the inconsistency between IR and other mods are bugging me. And I freaking HATE capital "D" in Dice Roll entry. 

[Guest Ront]

Thank you both.

[Bartimaeus]

The EE style seems to use the capitalized version as well - does that mean you manually correct all of the other BG2EE items, too?

 

[Cahir]

57 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

The EE style seems to use the capitalized version as well - does that mean you manually correct all of the other BG2EE items, too?

 

I think capitalized D is an inconsistency within original EE's. AFAIK majority of items uses normal "d". I think you showed one of the exceptions on your picture

But no, I don't change this manually for original items