NTotSC, DSotSC, TDD, and Spell File Names

[Endarire]

Do Northern Tales of the Sword Coast and Dark Side of the Sword Coast and The Darkest Day mods use custom spell names so as to be compatible with other mods?

IWD/BG1/BG2 and their EE versions have a strict limit of 50 spells per spell level per type (arcane/divine) due to all these having very specific file names.  OlvynChuru, SubtleDoctor, GrammarSalad, and others know more about this file format.  (I think SPLW is the prefix for arcane spells and SPLP is the prefix for divine spells.)

Certain mods use these standard file names for spells, but some don't.  The mod Shadow Magic can have a separate spell system with so many spells while not interfering with the base spell system due to Shadow Magic using different file names for spells.

Since Dark Side and Northern Tales and The Darkest Day are so old, they likely used the base system for spell numbering, and considering how many mods that add spells PCs can cast (and there are more than that!), that I want to ensure everything is compatible.

[subtledoctor]

The prefixes are SPWI, SPPR, SPIN, and SPCL. The game can handle 450 spells for each prefix; 50 each at spell levels 1-9. Half or so of that number is already taken up by vanilla spells. 

NTotSC does not add any spells of this sort... I don’t know about DSotSC/TDD though. I think they used to... but maybe the recent versions don’t?

Off the top of my head, the mods that add spells that occupy these slots are Spell Revisions, IWDification (or SCS/b_Spells), Made In Heaven spells, and OlvynSpells. Maybe also Faiths & Powers. (This is is slightly complicated for FnP: the new spells don’t need to use IDS slots if the sphere system is installed, but they do need to if the sphere system is not installed.)

That’s all I’m aware of. Btw I made a thread to discuss and keep track of limited resources like this... but it got a bit buried. 

[Chitown Willie]

"I don’t know about DSotSC/TDD though. I think they used to... but maybe the recent versions don’t? "

Actually, DSotSC 4.0 does:

OPTIONAL COMPONENTS
+++++++++++++++++++

DSotSC Wizard Spells:
This component will install the new spells of this mod.

DSotSC Priest Spells:
This component will install the new priest spells.

[Endarire]

How to make these mods' spells compatible with one another?  OlvynSpells has a fix for level 9 arcane spells which should be portable to other spell levels and divine spells.

[Jarno Mikkola]

How to fix... make all the mods use the ADD_SPELL -weidu tag. And the other associated principles.

12 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Half or so of that number is already taken up by vanilla spells. 

But that can be fixed, by assigning most of the wasted things to different slots... if you recall the "other associated principles." What's this about... well, there are about 3 damage spells at level 9. And how many spaces are filled to the gills in "9th level" spells that are NOT 9th level spells actually... it's almost complete. But there's a community fix for it, made by non other than K4thos.

[subtledoctor]

10 hours ago, Jarno Mikkola said:

How to fix... make all the mods use the ADD_SPELL -weidu tag.

Uh, all those mods do use ADD_SPELL. That is in fact the problem - ADD_SPELL will not add any new spells beyond SPxx[1-9]50.  In fact if a mod component adds 100 spells, and one of them goes beyond the limit in its spell level, then Weidu will cause the entire component to fail.  (I never saw the point of that, but it's been discussed and Wisp has refused to change the behavior, so here we are.)

13 hours ago, Endarire said:

How to make these mods' spells compatible with one another? 

3 options:

1. What sounds like a 2.5 UI hack that itself may not be compatible with other mods.  (OlvynChuru has for some reason declined to explain how this supposed fix even works.)
2. Move a bunch of existing spells outside that range, and do a perfect job of editing every script and dialogue in the game and in every mod to replace ___Spell actions and triggers with ___SpellRES actions and triggers.  (Good luck.)
3. Recreate the entire game from the ground up in GemRB and eliminate this pesky limitation. (Good luck.)
4. Manage your own expectations about how many mods you can install together and how much they will really contribute to making the game fun.

Edited October 5, 2020 by subtledoctor

[Endarire]

@Wisp
Since Weidu's ADD_SPELL seems to be the main limiting factor for how many spells we can have per level, may we have this limit removed or greatly expanded in a near-term Weidu update?

Thankee!

[subtledoctor]

Weidu is not the limiting factor; the game engine is.  Weidu is a bit strict in how it reflects that game engine's limitation, likely because being strict in that way preserves modder intent to the greatest degree possible.  (If a mod with 100 new spells installed 99 of them when only 1 is over the limit, instead of failing completely, that might seem better; but the mod's design is to add 100 new spells, not 99 new spells, and you don't know whether other parts of the mod are dependent on that one spell.  Ultimately, the solution here is for mods to be as conservative as they can when adding new spells. 

But no matter how much they strive for compatibility, you simply cannot have more than 50 spells at each level available in character generation menus (barring UI hacks that can cause new and different compatibility problems).  At some point you just need to figure out which ones you prefer and which ones you can do without.

Edited October 5, 2020 by subtledoctor