EET Install Order - iteration xyz

[subtledoctor]

18 hours ago, Gordian said:

Edit: after a few tries I went ahead and tried it the other way around: it's the same with this list in ToB, works in BG2ee though.

So, I tried to replicate this and I ran into the same issue: C/M wizard casting worked in SoA, but not when starting in TOB. Took me a while to run it down, but the answer for me at least is a bit embarrassing: when I created a Monitor of Azuth C/M in TOB, it started me out wearing leather armor! Which means the armor blocked the initial script to set up 5E arcane casting, and even blocked it when I removed the armor and rested (because the armor was present when the wizard spells were initially  memorized). The answer was to remove the armor, then use the 'Prepare Spells' ability, then rest. After that I could cast wizard spells just fine (as long as I wasn't wearing any armor).

Assuming that's what is affecting your game, good to know it's an easy solution and not a mod bug!

Edited January 11, 2022 by subtledoctor

[Gordian]

That makes a lot of sense. There was something nagging me in the back of my mind but I didn't come around to checking my inventory, oh my - embarrassing for me as well. Talk about bias expecting something to be wrong with the mod. (Then again, who would assume that FnP adds equipment... heh.)

It will be the same for the Mystra C/M btw.

Thanks! : )

Double checking on my system.

 

Btw: I ended up adding your Iron Skin via NI to preserve SRR's PM for SCS (even though it expects SR PM without the immunty to +3, can get that elsewhere), going to have to figure out how to add strings after some more pressing matters. Should be trivial.

Edited January 11, 2022 by Gordian

[Jarno Mikkola]

15 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

S...

Assuming that's what is affecting your game, good to know it's an easy solution and not a mod bug!

You do know you can choose the items you get in ToB by the item section of the ADD_KIT function ? So it wasthe kit mods own bug that was causing the bug.

Edited January 11, 2022 by Jarno Mikkola

[Gordian]

Haha, the imp at work. (I meant to put "little imp nagging me in the back of my mind" btw)

The systems in question work presumably, that's the gist of it.

Also this is something that wouldn't come up with IR/SoB's armour component installed, I suppose.

 

Lo and behold: it works. : )

The issue I had in the beginning with my full install was different though, I will do a test install and let you know tomorrow, also in regards to engine performance.

Thanks again!

Edited January 11, 2022 by Gordian

[Gordian]

Finished my local sphere system including (hopefully) all missing divine spells as per spell.ids, also added HLAs.

Seemed to work fine on tests, will try an install an see how it goes. : )

[Gordian]

Update:

5E is lagging the engine substantially on a full install, even crashing the game sometimes.

Apart from that, everything seems to work out! : ))

Especially glad I could include all the spells in the sphere system (as per spell.ids) thus being able to use it. Also added some HLAs/spells to spheres that were lacking when compared to others.

And I added Angel's HLAs to the magic sphere so that they are offered ingame.

 

BTW: do no install anything from NPC_EE before SCS' NPC customisation component.

It is also not needed with the SCS component, if I'm not mistaken.

Got the following error due to that:

Spoiler

//SFO: Applying patch(es) to CRE file(s) IMOEN10...
//...done
//Copying and patching 1 file ...

//Copying and patching 1 file ...
//Extending game scripts ...
//ERROR: No translation provided for @0
//Stopping installation because of error.

//ERROR Installing [Improved NPC customisation and management], rolling back to previous state
//Will uninstall 493 files for [stratagems\setup-stratagems.tp2] component 4100.
//Uninstalled    493 files for [stratagems\setup-stratagems.tp2] component 4100.
//ERROR: Not_found

What's more: when using custom spheres, it seems you can't uninstall. I ended up overwriting the fnp list.

On 1/10/2022 at 4:30 PM, subtledoctor said:

It's not really coding, just adding a third line of text to a file with two lines of text. The biggest issue is needing to know the filename of the MIH HLA spell. And note that FnP installs divine HLAs as 1/day innate abilities, not as 7th-level spells. So the ones that are active abilities can generally be chosen more than ones. So, if the new HLA is "mihspl09.spl" and it does something like "make the whole party immune to physical damage for two rounds," and you think it should be in the sphere of Protection, and you think it should be choosable twice, then you would open faiths_and_powers/spheres/hlas/protection/hlas_protection.txt and add this at the bottom:

Just adding HLAs to the spheres did not make them being installed as innate but kept the spell status for the ones that had it, apparently. Is this due to them formerly being arcane spells/HLAs?

Did I miss something?

Else I'll just NI this.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Gordian

[subtledoctor]

6 hours ago, Gordian said:

do no install anything from NPC_EE before SCS' NPC customisation component.

Probably do not install NPC_EE if you install that SCS component. Only need one or the other. 

6 hours ago, Gordian said:

Just adding HLAs to the spheres did not make them being installed as innate

Yeah all that does is add them to the kits’ HLA tables. It doesn’t change the spells themselves.

6 hours ago, Gordian said:

5E is lagging the engine substantially on a full install, even crashing the game sometimes.

So weird! I'd love to know your system specs. I think of my hardware as fairly middle-of-the-road, but it has no problems.  Maybe it's a platform issue? Could the game be more efficient/well-tuned when compiled for MacOS/iOS?

EDIT - also there should be a file in /override called "D5ZCLONS.2DA" which lists every spell included in the system. In my game with SR + IWDification this has 650 entries. I'd love to know how many are in yours. (Also the 5E system assumes this will not go above 999 entries because it names support spells with a prefix plus a 3-digit number... if there are more than  thousand entries I could see it being a bit of a problem. But... could you possibly have 350 more spells than me? That would surprise me.)

Edited January 12, 2022 by subtledoctor

[Angel]

On 1/11/2022 at 6:28 PM, Gordian said:

Ah, that's great to hear! I suspected something like this. I'll hold off a bit with my next big test install then, if it's just a quick fix.

I'm working on it, but no guarantees.

On 1/11/2022 at 6:28 PM, Gordian said:

Both of these, the second one more so, are tweaks I can only implement after a little playtesting from my side, it might make fights against non-casters fairly trivial in later stages of the game, conversely making higher level enemy mages early very dangerous. (later as well, I suppose). I do like the notion, but I don't want to make my SoS or SoD spells too powerful.

What was your experience from playtesting? Especially when it comes to party vs. non-casters?

I'm currently at the start of SoD and I'm so far not noticing a big effect on either party or enemy.  However, in my previous run, mages became very dangerous in late BG2 and ToB, with spells like Wail of the Banshee often killing one or two party members.  I'll see how this plays out and might change things up a bit accordingly.

On 1/11/2022 at 7:30 PM, subtledoctor said:

MBR only makes sure that Breach can affect creatures with spell-level-based immunities. It clones 4th-level immunity effect to a new 5th-level immunity effect. If MIH removes the 4th-level immunity, then it won’t bother MBR. 

Note, however, that SCS adds 206 immunity vs. a static list of 5th-level spells. I don’t know how that interacts with MIH. And even if SCS doesn’t partially undo MIH’s change, SCS lich AI might be adversely affected if the SCS scripts operate on the assumption of immunity to 4th- and 5th-level spells.

If my tweaks are installed after SCS, it will remove the immunities added by SCS, and then dynamically re-add them as needed.  SCS probably doesn't play nice with my modifications as it's likely not aware of this, but I haven't verified or tested this.

On 1/11/2022 at 7:30 PM, subtledoctor said:

Note that Spell Rev already implements save penalties for high-level spells, though in a holistic way, with penalties roughly 1/2 the spell level (most 1st-level spells are flat to +2 bonus; most 9th-level spells have about -4 penalty). IIRC SR v3 had more extreme penalties, up to -6, but got some negative feedback on it.

Mm, I should add a note about that to my readme I guess.  Although in general I don't think it's a good idea to use SR and my spell changes at the same time as there may be considerable overlap.  But I haven't tested this either.

[subtledoctor]

12 minutes ago, Angel said:

If my tweaks are installed after SCS, it will remove the immunities added by SCS, and then dynamically re-add them as needed.  SCS probably doesn't play nice with my modifications as it's likely not aware of this, but I haven't verified or tested this

I think it’s probably fine. It’s a question if whether the AI will behave optimally. The AI might assume it is immune to Vitriolic Sphere, and so not cast Pro Acid. Of course you could still cast Acid Storm or whatever, so the lich might still do the right thing. 99% of players would probably not notice any difference. 

[Gordian]

No rush at all. I already in included the HLAs in my local sphere system.

The brunt of of spell changes after SRR are D5 rnd tweaks, working fine so far.

I will probably add the lich tweak. ; )

 

I noticed that the C/M of Mystra seems to get + to caster level - it should only be speed as per description. Will check again on new install.

 

YARAS:

Currently trying to figure out why my C/M can't cast arcane spells with YARAS and leather armour equipped. Also some item usability restrictions are off (unusable even though not stated in the description). Moved YARAS quite a bit back in the installation now and checking again.

My install of IRR + YARAS leads to casting speed penalties not being in the description, I suppose. Couldn't find it in NI (might have overlooked) either.

The armours should have a version of 189 (casting speed), no?

The imported C/M can cast arcane spells in armour. A self-generated mage or C/M can't. (Could come from FnP or TnB as well, I suppose.)

Did I miss a change or ini file? (I did edit the YARAS one and copied the renamed version to override.)

Is it connected to D5ZARM1P.EFF ?

Any ideas, @subtledoctor?

 

Also: is concentration still broken, thus no point in installing the component?

 

Edit: ini seems to be okay.

Spoiler

//__________________________________________________________________________________
//__________________________________________________________________________________
//
//                        IWO - YET ANOTHER REVISED ARMOR SYSTEM
//__________________________________________________________________________________
//__________________________________________________________________________________

// You can modify these settings as you see fit (see notes about max values, though). To keep
// a personalized version of these settings: copy this and rename it to "d5_yaras.ini" and then
// each time you install mods, drop that file into your /override folder before installing SoB

//SET ARMOR CHARACTERISTICS_________________________________________________________
//
//    BASE AC:                                // this sets the base AC for the armor
//
        SET leather_ac =     (8 - %enchantment%)
        SET studded_ac =     (7 - %enchantment%)
        SET chain_ac =         (6 - %enchantment%)
        SET splint_ac =     (5 - %enchantment%)
        SET plate_ac =         (4 - %enchantment%)
        SET fullplate_ac =     (3 - %enchantment%)
//
//    DAMAGE RESISTANCE:                        // this is a percentage bonus
//
        SET leather_dr =     (8 + %enchantment%)
        SET studded_dr =     (12 + %enchantment%)
        SET chain_dr =         (24 + %enchantment%)
        SET splint_dr =     (30 + %enchantment%)
        SET plate_dr =         (36 + %enchantment%)
        SET fullplate_dr =     (42 + %enchantment%)
//
//    CASTING SPEED PENALTY:                     // this is a static modifier
//                                            //     (**NOTE** the max value = 6)
        SET leather_cast =        2
        SET studded_cast =        2
        SET chain_cast =         3
        SET splint_cast =         4
        SET plate_cast =         5
        SET fullplate_cast =     5
//
//    CASTING FAILURE CHANCE:                    // no penalty by default;
//                                            // this is a percentage chance, so from 0-100
        SET leather_miscast =     0
        SET studded_miscast =     0
        SET chain_miscast =     0
        SET splint_miscast =     0
        SET plate_miscast =     0
        SET fullplate_miscast = 0
//
//    WEAPON SPEED PENALTY:                     // this is a static modifier
//                                            // best to keep it low
        SET leather_weap =        0
        SET studded_weap =        0
        SET chain_weap =         1
        SET splint_weap =         2
        SET plate_weap =         2
        SET fullplate_weap =     2
//
//    MOVEMENT PENALTIES:                        // note this is a STATIC modifier - not a percentage
//                                            // so best to keep the values between 0 and 4 or so
        PATCH_IF (%enchantment% = 0) BEGIN
          SET leather_move =     0
          SET studded_move =     0
          SET chain_move =         0
          SET splint_move =     0
          SET plate_move =         0
          SET fullplate_move =     0
        END
        PATCH_IF (%enchantment% >= 1) BEGIN
          SET leather_move =     0
          SET studded_move =     0
          SET chain_move =         0
          SET splint_move =     0
          SET plate_move =         0
          SET fullplate_move =     0
        END
//
//    DEX PENALTIES:                             //     Dex penalties are reduced for enchanted items.
//                                            //     If you don't want that, then...
        PATCH_IF (%enchantment% = 0) BEGIN     //     ...make the numbers in these two blocks identical.
          SET leather_dex =        1
          SET studded_dex =        2
          SET chain_dex =         3
          SET splint_dex =         4
          SET plate_dex =         5
          SET fullplate_dex =     5
        END
        PATCH_IF (%enchantment% >= 1) BEGIN
          SET leather_dex =        0
          SET studded_dex =        1
          SET chain_dex =         2
          SET splint_dex =         3
          SET plate_dex =         4
          SET fullplate_dex =     4
        END
//
//    THIEF SKILL PENALTIES:                    // This affects heavy armors only; vanilla values
//                                            // for leather, hide, & elven chain are unchanged
        SET chain_stealth =     40
        SET chain_mech =         20
        SET chain_detect =         20

        SET splint_stealth =     60             //     "stealth" = Pick Pockets, Hide in Shadows, Move Silently
        SET splint_mech =         30             //     "mech" = Open Locks, Set Traps
        SET splint_detect =     20             //     "detect" = Find Traps, Detect Illusions

        SET plate_stealth =     75
        SET plate_mech =         50
        SET plate_detect =         30

        SET fullplate_stealth = 90
        SET fullplate_mech =     60
        SET fullplate_detect =     40
//                                            // These armors have mixed characteristics,
//    HOW TO TREAT HIDE ARMOR:                // which you can define. E.g. hide armor:
//                                            // good DR but poor AC, DEX, and casting speed.
        SET hide_ac =         %studded_ac%
        SET hide_dr =         %chain_dr%
        SET hide_cast =        %studded_ac%
        SET hide_miscast =    %studded_ac%
        SET hide_move =        %studded_move%
        SET hide_weap =        %studded_weap%
        SET hide_dex =        %studded_ac%
//
//    HOW TO TREAT ELVEN CHAIN:                // Elven chain is as light as leather.
//                                            // Or you can just set these to 0 if you want.
        SET elven_cast =    0
        SET elven_miscast =    0
        SET elven_move =    0
        SET elven_weap =    0
        SET elven_dex =        0
//
//    HOW TO TREAT (DRAGON-)SCALE ARMOR:        // Dragonscale is equivalent to plate for AC;
//                                            // but like splint or chain for DR, DEX, and casting
        SET scale_ac =         %fullplate_ac%
        SET scale_dr =         %fullplate_dr%
        SET scale_cast =    %chain_cast%
        SET scale_miscast =    %chain_miscast%
        SET scale_move =    %chain_move%
        SET scale_weap =    %chain_weap%
        SET scale_dex =        %chain_dex%
        SET scale_stealth =  %chain_stealth%
        SET scale_mech =     %chain_mech%
        SET scale_detect =     %chain_detect%

//__________________________________________________________________________________

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by Gordian

[Graion Dilach]

Concentration is still broken.

[Gordian]

Yea, seemed that way, read up on it a few months ago.

 

Also, let me know when you come up with a solution to Prismatic Mantle/Iron Skin and taking away the greying effect, heh. (Currently I just add the other spell via NI.) I think klatu has it, but it doesn't install on 2.6 and I can't use Olvyn's version due to EEex limitations.

Edited January 13, 2022 by Gordian

[subtledoctor]

On 1/11/2022 at 5:53 PM, Gordian said:

Btw: I ended up adding your Iron Skin via NI to preserve SRR's PM for SCS (even though it expects SR PM without the immunty to +3, can get that elsewhere)

SCS doesn't actually expect the SR Prismatic Mantle... really, SCS expects vanilla Mantle. Read here about the problems with Prismatic Mantle (including problems with SCS) and our thoughts about how to address them. (Including my most recent thoughts on the matter, which just occurred to me as I was getting that link for this post!) tl;dr: if you like Prismatic Mantle and want it in your game, then add it. But don't do it for the sake of SCS.

2 hours ago, Gordian said:

My install of IRR + YARAS leads to casting speed penalties not being in the description, I suppose. Couldn't find it in NI (might have overlooked) either.

The armours should have a version of 189 (casting speed), no?

Armors with YARAS should have a description that looks like this:

Quote

STATISTICS:

Armor Class: 6

Damage Resistance: 24%
Dexterity Penalty: -3
Weapon Attack Speed Penalty: +1
Arcane Casting Speed Penalty: +3
Stealth, Pick Pockets: -40%
Open Locks, Set Traps: -20%
Find Traps, Detect Illusion: -20%

Requires:
 8 Strength

If the casting speed penalty is not applied, then it is omitted from the description patching. So if you see most of that stuff, with that kind of verbiage, but nothing about casting speed penalty, then it means none was applied to the armor. Casting speed penalties are not applied by op189, it is by op177 and .EFF files named "D5_CSTP3" or the like.

Alternatively, I don't know what IRR does to armors or to armor descriptions (I recall Bart changed to using some fancy new description-rewriting code recently, that could be leaving the descriptions in a state that YARAS has a hard time dealing with.)

Also: you didn't install the IRR armor changes that let you cast spells or use thieving abilities in armor, did you? Those don't mix well with YARAS.

2 hours ago, Gordian said:

The imported C/M can cast arcane spells in armour. A self-generated mage or C/M can't.

Is it connected to D5ZARM1P.EFF

D5ZARM1P is from the 5E casting mod, are you still using it? This .EFF it prevents 5E casters from casting arcane spells in armor. YARAS should replace the use of these effects with D5_CSTP3 .EFF files, so you get the speed penalty instead of blocked spellcasting. I just quickly installed 5E Casting + YARAS and this was successful - the D5ZARM .EFF files are not used in any armors.

[Gordian]

21 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

SCS doesn't actually expect the SR Prismatic Mantle... really, SCS expects vanilla Mantle. Read here about the problems with Prismatic Mantle (including problems with SCS) and our thoughts about how to address them. (Including my most recent thoughts on the matter, which just occurred to me as I was getting that link for this post!) tl;dr: if you like Prismatic Mantle and want it in your game, then add it. But don't do it for the sake of SCS.

Yes, I do want it in my game but I prefer Mantle or Iron Skins for SCS enemies (ideally both, but an edited PR, that doesn't damage on hits that deal no damage etc). I read your post, that's why I brought it up. ; )

21 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

If the casting speed penalty is not applied, then it is omitted from the description patching. So if you see most of that stuff, with that kind of verbiage, but nothing about casting speed penalty, then it means none was applied to the armor. Casting speed penalties are not applied by op189, it is by op177 and .EFF files named "D5_CSTP3" or the like.

Alternatively, I don't know what IRR does to armors or to armor descriptions (I recall Bart changed to using some fancy new description-rewriting code recently, that could be leaving the descriptions in a state that YARAS has a hard time dealing with.)

Also: you didn't install the IRR armor changes that let you cast spells or use thieving abilities in armor, did you? Those don't mix well with YARAS.

I didn't install them. The ini file should apply casting speed penalties but none are applied. I did refer to this post on descriptions.

Checking NI for D5_CSTP3.

21 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

D5ZARM1P is from the 5E casting mod, are you still using it? This .EFF it prevents 5E casters from casting arcane spells in armor. YARAS should replace the use of these effects with D5_CSTP3 .EFF files, so you get the speed penalty instead of blocked spellcasting. I just quickly installed 5E Casting + YARAS and this was successful - the D5ZARM .EFF files are not used in any armors.

I'm not. I only added optional 5e casting for divine casters from FnP - could this be the culprit?

Edited January 13, 2022 by Gordian

[subtledoctor]

18 minutes ago, Gordian said:

I'm not. I only added optional 5e casting for divine casters from FnP - could this be the culprit?

That's not 5E casting, it's 3E sorcerer casting... but no, that should not be the culprit. That shouldn't have any effect on armors, since clerics can cast in armor anyway.

My two thoughts are 1) Might & Guile, since Revised Bards installs an arcane-only version of 5E casting and has to modify armors since it lets bards cast in leather armor; but this shouldn't be a problem, since as I say I just installed 5E casting + YARAS and it worked fine or 2) you have some stuff built up in your override folder from all this testing and some things didn't get uninstalled right, and now it is affecting things. It happens from time to time...

EDIT - actually I just tracked it down. This can occur if you install TnB Multiclass Sorcerers but not the Arcanist and not 5E casting and not MnG Revised Bards, and then install YARAS. Very very simple fix, a new version of SoB is already up.

Edited January 13, 2022 by subtledoctor