SCS for IWD-in-BG2?

[Rhastor]

I have just started IWD for the first time, using IWD:EE, and... after playing the DavidW's SCS mod, it's a bit underwhelming. Enemies can be peeled off one by one. It's just too easy.

I wonder if I should switch to IWD-in-BG2, and use Sword Coast Stratagems. Is that even possible?

As a side note, are BG2 spells available in that mod, instead of the weird IWD ones?

[Graion Dilach]

SCs doesn't support IWD-in-BG2 either. Additionally, IWD-in-BG2 is a dead platform and can be considered as a very rough prototype of IWDEE.

[Luke]

@Rhastor

You might want to have a look at this mod...

[subtledoctor]

I stopped reading at “Heart of Fury.” The whole point of SCS is to make encounters more interesting/challenging on Core Rules, without needing to add artificial nonsense like HoF does. 

Here’s a potentially fun thing to try:

1. Play IWDEE v2.5. 

2. When you enter a new map, save the game. 

3. Load that save. 

If the bug kicks in, every enemy on the map will start streaming toward you at once. It’s like an IWD version of the SCS Bandit Camp. Can be super fun. I’ve had it work on several maps in Dragon’s Eye and the Elven Hand, though I never went through and systematically figured out if it happens everywhere. (HoW Burial Isle would be craaazy...)

[Rhastor]

Ah, that's too bad. I guess there are probably reasons why IWD never got any love.

About the Heart of Fury mod, I have to agree with subtledoctor on that one.

[Luke]

@subtledoctor, @Rhastor

You might not want to stop at "Heart of Fury". If you continue the reading, you'll notice the following paragraph: "There are multiple ways the mod improves the AI:"

I didn't try the mod myself (will probably do, just waiting for v2.6 IWDEE on iPadOS), but as the mod author said: "I'm not sure if the mod's AI is comparable with SCS, but it's the closest thing for Icewind Dale.".

Edited January 22, 2022 by Luke

[Jarno Mikkola]

1 hour ago, Luke said:

There are multiple ways the mod improves the AI:"

Well, the HoF thing is not about AI, it's about kicking the player up to level 10-20 and make all the moisters level 10-20 too. The IMBALANCE of this makes the whole thing bullshit.

Yes, the HoF campaign was made for game plus in mind.

[Dan_P]

I've played through the HOF mod. It's a good challenge, but it's not really similar to SCS. It's more of a powergaming mod, for both party and enemies. A lot of power creep, etc. You gain HLAs, and so do enemies, and some new abilities are gained at level 40+. If you've used some of OlvynChuru's other mods like OlvynSpells, there's a similar feel to some of the new stuff, including enemy-only abilities.

[Graion Dilach]

OlvynChuru's stuff is cool but it really doesn't sound like something I'd play myself either. I presume sarevok57's IWDEE 1.4 megamod would be the better counterpart but he didn't write his mod in WeiDU so it's broken on 2.6 (if I'd have an 1.4 install to compare against, I probably would've tried to volunteer for that rewrite, but GoG doesn't offer 1.4).

[Rhastor]

It's pretty wild that they didn't fix the complete lack of "calls for help" when they made EE. I am in the undead temple near the beginning of the game and already thinking I'll probably quit because of how tedious and silly it is to keep moving forward by inches, while enemies just outside of your vision don't react. I don't remember pre-SCS BG being this way, but I could be mistaken I guess. As IWD is supposed to be a hack-and-slash game it really badly needs some sort of cohesion between monsters sitting next to each other. It's basically unplayable IMHO.

[Jarno Mikkola]

35 minutes ago, Rhastor said:

...

Or you could just use melee ranged fighters... and let them proceed into the enemy and you'll do fine with the existing AI. Coward.

[subtledoctor]

Actually all IWD really needs is a calls-for-help mod. The numbers and arrangement of enemies would make that work well. 

(Of course one can always just... not inch forward? The enemies are arranged in pretty clearly-defined squads, when I play I always tackle each squad together. I also front-load Open Locks/Find Traps on my thieves so stealth is bad for a while; and I don’t rest mid-mission so I can’t squander spell slots on Invisibility. Reduced scouting means no drawing out enemies one at a time.)

But yeah, I wonder if a basic calls-for-help mod could be fashioned with SCS as the model?

[Rhastor]

@Jarno Mikkola

I didn't make any melee range fighters, and I was trying to do a no-reload run blind, on a game I haven't played before, so I don't really want to restart. Even if I were to do so, this type of solution doesn't appeal to me. I shouldn't have to deliberately use bad strategies in a strategy game. I would rather do something else with my time.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Rhastor

[Rhastor]

@subtledoctor Yeah, calls-for-help would do the trick. It could also benefit from SCS's improved targeting, but that would just be icing.

[Luke]

15 hours ago, Jarno Mikkola said:

The IMBALANCE of this makes the whole thing bullshit.

Yes, I agree with you.

And that's why OlvynChuru focused on improving the AI. The ReadMe states:

• Enemies are generally much quicker to select a different target, rather than chasing the same target for a long time.
• Enemies generally prioritize attacking characters who don't have Stoneskin or Mirror Image.
• Enemies usually don't attack characters that they can't do anything to (e.g. because of Protection from Magical Weapons).
• Enemies rarely ever use spells or abilities on creatures that are immune to those spells or abilities.
• Enemy spellcasters, particularly ones later on in the game, will only use many of their spells on party members, rather than wasting all of their spells on summoned creatures.

@RhastorIn any case, you should speak directly with OlvynChuru so as to clear out any doubt...