SCS install errors with Spell Revisions

[pencey]

On a BG2:EE installation (latest version) , I'm attempting to install SCS 34.3 after Spell Revisions 4.19. I get a number of errors installing the 'Smarter Mages' component. They look like this, relating to a different mage file each time:

 

Quote

SCS's 'mage_edits_main' function has encountered a file it doesn't know how to patch, SUJON.CRE (probably the file was broken by a previous mod). The error message was 'Not_found'. SCS has skipped it and continued with installation, but this may cause instabilities.

 

I've tried rolling Spell Revisions versions to 4.16, but the errors are still present.

Has anyone found success resolving these? Or is anyone confident they can be safely ignored?

Edited September 14, 2023 by pencey

[pencey]

The combination of Spell Revisions and SCS's 'Include arcane spells from Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition' is giving these errors.

They can be reproduced with the following:

~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #0 // Spell Revisions: v4.19
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #5900 // Initialise AI components (required for all tactical and AI components): 34.3
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #1500 // Include arcane spells from Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition: 34.3
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6030 // Smarter Mages: 34.3

[subtledoctor]

11 hours ago, pencey said:

Has anyone found success resolving these?

Good to report it for v35, but in the meantime, just use IWDification.

[DavidW]

11 hours ago, pencey said:

The combination of Spell Revisions and SCS's 'Include arcane spells from Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition' is giving these errors.

They can be reproduced with the following:

~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #0 // Spell Revisions: v4.19
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #5900 // Initialise AI components (required for all tactical and AI components): 34.3
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #1500 // Include arcane spells from Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition: 34.3
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6030 // Smarter Mages: 34.3

Something is fairly odd here: 6030 requires 5900; indeed I’m quite surprised SCS let you install 6030 without it.

[polytope]

13 hours ago, pencey said:

The combination of Spell Revisions and SCS's 'Include arcane spells from Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition' is giving these errors.

I'm not sure at all that SR and IWD spells are conceptually compatible, I'd choose one or the other.

At any rate, the version of IWD spells packaged in the current release of SCS is potentially bugged on non-EE games (only for the player, the AI doesn't use the broken spells) although that's not an issue for your install, and the combination of Spell Revisions and SCS has problems for certain kits.

[subtledoctor]

2 hours ago, polytope said:

I'm not sure at all that SR and IWD spells are conceptually compatible, I'd choose one or the other.

Don’t see why not. I’ve been using them together for 15 years, never had a problem. The only issue is whether SCS uses spells in enemy scripts; this is why I don’t like most other spell packs, I don’t want spells that enemies can’t use against me. 

But SR changes more than it adds. So even if SCS only adds IWD spells to enemy scripts, it will feel like it also supports SR, because it will cast SR versions of the base spells. 

Simpler conceptual issues like how much heal spells heal, and what gets summoned by summoning spells, can be resolved by install order.  

Edited September 15, 2023 by subtledoctor

[polytope]

1 hour ago, subtledoctor said:

Don’t see why not. I’ve been using them together for 15 years, never had a problem.

IWDification wasn't part of SCS 15 years ago, and that was before I discovered SCS.

How are damage spells handled in your games, save vs magic as originally, or vs breath? Does it extend to the IWD added spells?

[subtledoctor]

On 9/14/2023 at 4:08 PM, pencey said:

~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #0 // Spell Revisions: v4.19
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #5900 // Initialise AI components (required for all tactical and AI components): 34.3
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #1500 // Include arcane spells from Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition: 34.3
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6030 // Smarter Mages: 34.3

Why did you install things out of order? I would definitely guess that is a source of problems (Wild guess: are you using Roxanne’s awful BWS ripoff mod installer tool?).

22 hours ago, polytope said:

How are damage spells handled in your games, save vs magic as originally, or vs breath?

Just glanced at my install, and different spells specify different saves. Sound Burst, Fireball, Skull Trap, Call Lightning, Vitriolic Sphere, Smashing Wave, Chain Lightning, and Incendiary Cloud allow saves vs. breath weapon to halve damage; Holy Smite, Lance of Disruption, Mordenkainen’s Force Missiles, and Acid Storm allow saves vs. spells. ADHW has a save vs. death. (This seems fine to me - 2E spells were literally and figuratively all over the place.)

Edited September 16, 2023 by subtledoctor

[Graion Dilach]

7 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Don’t see why not. I’ve been using them together for 15 years, never had a problem. [...] Simpler conceptual issues like how much heal spells heal, and what gets summoned by summoning spells, can be resolved by install order.  

The common recommendation of the "SR->IWDification->SCS generating spell lists with IWD spells" install order will always end up with warnings, because SR never creates a level 6 Conjure Water Elemental spell, IWDification sees that SR already derived the other level 6 elemental spells from the level 5 counterparts and thereby also doesn't create a level 6 Water Elemental spell and so when SCS's generation rolls that spell for an enemy, you get a nondescriptive Not found() error in your install log. I wrote a workaround, where I applied SR balancing and text style to handcrafted elementals matching those, but eh. It is a workaround.

I don't trust SR to try installing IWDification first and that one after but I doubt that'd work any better (although that shouldn't lead to SCS expecting a missing spell atleast).

Edited September 15, 2023 by Graion Dilach

[subtledoctor]

3 hours ago, Graion Dilach said:

SR never creates a level 6 Conjure Water Elemental spell, IWDification sees that SR already derived the other level 6 elemental spells from the level 5 counterparts and thereby also doesn't create a level 6 Water Elemental spell

Honestly this sounds like something IWD should probably fix. Also, SR should make a water elemental spell. (Good on you for that workaround!)

But are those not_found warnings meaningful? If SCS doesn’t find a water elemental spell, are there consequences beyond some mages having one fewer known spells?

[Graion Dilach]

Only IWD has a conjure water elemental spell, the BG series and SR doesn't, so SR's behaviour is technically correct.

I explained the exact reason why this topic was opened in the first place. @pencey posted the exact warning I talk about. Your reaction only speaks about you, really.

[DavidW]

11 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

But are those not_found warnings meaningful? If SCS doesn’t find a water elemental spell, are there consequences beyond some mages having one fewer known spells?

Yes: it means SCS will skip that mage entirely.

This is a consequence of my swapping the script order so that if you have both SR and IWD spells, you get the IWD spell choices. Mostly that works fine, but of course there's a missing spell. Will address.

[DavidW]

11 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Honestly this sounds like something IWD should probably fix.

I think it's out of scope. It's thematically problematic to have a vanilla Water Elemental spell coexisting with SR's elemental spells, but IWDification can't be expected to make its own SR spell. 

 

 

[subtledoctor]

13 hours ago, DavidW said:

I think it's out of scope. It's thematically problematic to have a vanilla Water Elemental spell coexisting with SR's elemental spells, but IWDification can't be expected to make its own SR spell. 

Well, it’s good to worry about thematic harmony among mods… in principle… but if a mod skips a spell because it already exists when the spell does not already exist, that’s kind of a basic detection error. IMHO that’s more important than thematic compatibility. Though, reasonable minds can disagree. 

(I checked my current install and this isn’t a problem because FnP adds the 5th-level CWE spell and the @Graion Dilach fix adds the 6th-level version. Maybe those should just be added to SR.)

14 hours ago, Graion Dilach said:

I explained the exact reason why this topic was opened in the first place. @pencey posted the exact warning I talk about. Your reaction only speaks about you, really.

…and I asked what the consequences of those warnings are? There are plenty of times in which install warnings are harmless. I’d guess about 90% of the time. I wasn’t sure if this was such a case. Wtf is your problem, man?

Edited September 17, 2023 by subtledoctor

[pencey]

OP here. My installation proceeded without warnings when I made the following change in stratagems.ini:

iwd_overrides_sr = 0