Bastard Sword +1, +3 vs. Shapeshifters

[sirnicklaus]

Druids are considered shapeshifters, correct?  In testing, this sword is doing identical base damage to two members of my party (in this case 10-16 dmg), despite one being a druid and the other not.

[jmerry]

Probably not. The BG-series version (named as Kondar) only works against lycanthropes and doppelgangers, after all.

If I were extending it, I'd probably only look for innate racial shapeshifting abilities, rather than learned class abilities. In fact, I've already written a component like that which extends Kondar to get its bonus against vampires and rakshasas - but not druids.

[4udr4n]

I agree that it probably shouldn't give bonuses against characters with class abilities to shapeshift, otherwise maybe it should include Mages, Bards and Sorcerers as they can shapeshift using polymorph self (maybe Tenser's too?).

What might be an interesting idea for a modded version would be to have it +3 vs any character not in their base form. Would that be easy to detect?

[jmerry]

The polymorph opcode sets stat #59 "POLYMORPHED". That should be easy enough to detect.

The problem with that is all the creatures that fake it and use stuff like "replace this creature" effects. Technically, creatures like that are in their base form both before and after the transformation.

[Jarno Mikkola]

7 hours ago, sirnicklaus said:

Druids are considered shapeshifters, correct?  In testing, this sword is doing identical base damage to two members of my party (in this case 10-16 dmg), despite one being a druid and the other not.

Do the people that are hit have melee or ranged weapons ? Cause if one has ranged weapon, darts or the like, they take +4 damage, just from that.

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Jarno Mikkola

[sirnicklaus]

18 hours ago, Jarno Mikkola said:

Do the people that are hit have melee or ranged weapons ? Cause if one has ranged weapon, darts or the like, they take +4 damage, just from that.

 

I'm not totally sure I understand what you're saying.  The members of my party that I was attacking with the sword in question would take an additional +4 damage if they were equipped with a ranged weapon?  How does the weapon they're equipped with (unless it were offering a slashing resistance modifier) affect the damage they take from the sword hitting them?

[4udr4n]

44 minutes ago, sirnicklaus said:

How does the weapon they're equipped with (unless it were offering a slashing resistance modifier) affect the damage they take from the sword hitting them?

Wiki says:
using a ranged weapon against a melee attacker gives -8 penalty to THAC0, whereas the melee attacker gains a +4 THAC0 and damage bonus when engaging an enemy that uses a ranged weapon

[CamDawg]

Creatures with melee weapons get an additional +4 to-hit and damage when attacking a creature with a ranged weapon equipped. It's not documented anywhere AFAIK.

[sirnicklaus]

2 hours ago, 4udr4n said:

Wiki says:
using a ranged weapon against a melee attacker gives -8 penalty to THAC0, whereas the melee attacker gains a +4 THAC0 and damage bonus when engaging an enemy that uses a ranged weapon

 

2 hours ago, CamDawg said:

Creatures with melee weapons get an additional +4 to-hit and damage when attacking a creature with a ranged weapon equipped. It's not documented anywhere AFAIK.

Went back and made sure the characters being attacked were equipped with melee weapons.  Damaged received was 10-16.  Being curious with what you just told me though, I then equipped one of them with a sling.  Character still received 10-16 damage from the sword.

[polytope]

8 hours ago, CamDawg said:

Creatures with melee weapons get an additional +4 to-hit and damage when attacking a creature with a ranged weapon equipped. It's not documented anywhere AFAIK.

8 hours ago, 4udr4n said:

Wiki says:
using a ranged weapon against a melee attacker gives -8 penalty to THAC0, whereas the melee attacker gains a +4 THAC0 and damage bonus when engaging an enemy that uses a ranged weapon

Not just ranged weapons, also applies to attacking anyone "unarmed" except monks*, I think equipping anything with a melee header as a weapon (beyond the default fist attack) prevents it, this includes monster's natural weapons.

*(Monks of course are only relevant in IWDII and IWD:EE)

[Jarno Mikkola]

16 hours ago, sirnicklaus said:

Went back and made sure the characters being attacked were equipped with melee weapons.  Damaged received was 10-16.  Being curious with what you just told me though, I then equipped one of them with a sling.  Character still received 10-16 damage from the sword.

Did they also have the ammo for it ? Baecause they won't use it without the ammo...

[sirnicklaus]

4 hours ago, Jarno Mikkola said:

Did they also have the ammo for it ? Baecause they won't use it without the ammo...

Yes, the character had bullets +2 equipped and the doll was holding the sling on the inventory page.

[polytope]

13 hours ago, Jarno Mikkola said:

Did they also have the ammo for it ? Baecause they won't use it without the ammo...

It wouldn't matter, the bonus for attacking with a melee weapon vs unarmed aren't contingent on the target having a useful ranged weapon - although that does count - but rather on not having a melee weapon equipped.