Ding0's Charm Proposals

[SimDing0]

Having failed to come up with a suitable charm fix for Tutu, I believe the best solution is to tweak the spells instead. So, with utter disregard for PnP rules or Bioware intent, I present Ding0's Charm Proposals.

 

- Charmed creatures are allied but not directly under your control. They use their charmed dialogues. Non-innocents will attack any enemies of yours, but will remain in place or return to their original position afterwards. When Charm wears off, the creature has a 50% chance of turning hostile. A failed Charm attempt has a 50% chance of hostility.

- Dire charmed creatures are also allied but not directly under your control. They use their charmed dialogues. They will follow you at a reasonable distance, and will attack any enemies of yours. When Dire Charm wears off, the creature has a 75% chance of turning hostile. A failed Dire Charm attempt has a 50% chance of hostility.

- Dominated creatures are directly under your control. They cannot speak of their own accord. When Dominate wears off, the creature always turns hostile. A failed Dominate attempt has a 50% chance of hostility.

 

Thoughts?

[SimDing0]

That's for Tutu. If you have BGT, they should all just crash the game.

[Nerik]

Actually, IIRC, your proposal for charm may well be closer to PnP than the original implimentation .

 

As an idea (athough this could break stuff somewhere) how about having dire charm making creatures allied but berserk (or just plain berserk!)?

 

Charles

[Galactygon]

- Charmed creatures are allied but not directly under your control. They use their charmed dialogues. Non-innocents will attack any enemies of yours, but will remain in place or return to their original position afterwards. When Charm wears off, the creature has a 50% chance of turning hostile. A failed Charm attempt has a 50% chance of hostility.

- Dire charmed creatures are also allied but not directly under your control. They use their charmed dialogues. They will follow you at a reasonable distance, and will attack any enemies of yours. When Dire Charm wears off, the creature has a 75% chance of turning hostile. A failed Dire Charm attempt has a 50% chance of hostility.

 

 

- Dominated creatures are directly under your control. They cannot speak of their own accord. When Dominate wears off, the creature always turns hostile. A failed Dominate attempt has a 50% chance of hostility.

 

I was under the impression that domination prevents the subject from thinking consciously or remembering anything while it was dominated (hence the disabled dialogue). Realistically, a dominated creature should be confused/stunned for 1D4 rounds after the spell expired, since it would take some time to gather itself together and see what is happening. Perhaps make that dependant on the INT/WIS of the creature?

 

A neutral subject affected by a domination spell should turn neutral, a hostile should turn back to hostile, and an ally should turn back to an ally.

 

Having a local variable set on the start of battles based on initial allegiance that allow the allegiance to be switched back if it differs from the value of the variable is a good idea. Thus, a creature will switch back to the allegiance before the domination spell affected it. The variable could be switched according to the actions of the party (ie. a PC attacking a neutral not only switches the allegiance, but also a variable indicating the initial allegiance before the domination spell was cast)

 

As for failed dominate effects, only creatures familiar with the spell or have telepathic powers (including psionic-using creatures such as Mindflayers) should turn hostile. I find it unlikely that commoners know what happened if they succeeded at their saving throws.

 

-Galactygon

[SimDing0]

I think Dominate can swing either way--whatever PnP says, it seems reasonable to dictate that the creature is aware of its effects. From a game balance point of view (and to avoid disruption to the story), I find this preferable, because I think it's going to be too much of an advantage if you can take control of whoever you like, do what you want with them, and then have them return to normal.

 

Regardless of telepathic powers, I would consider turning hostile if I saw someone cast some random shit at me. The 50% chance accounts for them not understanding/noticing/caring. I think once again game balance favours this approach, since there should be some penalty for repeatedly trying to charm somebody.

[Macready]

Hello -

 

Regardless of telepathic powers, I would consider turning hostile if I saw someone cast some random shit at me. The 50% chance accounts for them not understanding/noticing/caring. I think once again game balance favours this approach, since there should be some penalty for repeatedly trying to charm somebody.

 

I would categorize the 50% chance of hostility as "not fun." Is there anyone who is going to try to charm commoners when there is a 50% chance of the whole town going hostile via _shout on failure? Unless you like save/reload tactics, which I do not.

 

I'd propose this approach:

 

* You get one free try. Success means no hostility at end of charm, and no hostility on failed charm.

 

* Any subsequent charm attempt (these can be kept track of via LOCALS) will mean 100% hostility on failure, and 100% hostility at end of charm on success.

 

It may not be the most realistic method, but if I know there's even the slightest chance of failure and mass hostility, I'm never going to try in the first place.

[SimDing0]

Mass Hostility is very much always been a feature of charm. The 50% tweak would actually reduce the chances. On the other hand, yes, I like the sound of your idea from a playability perspective.

[Galactygon]

From a game balance point of view (and to avoid disruption to the story), I find this preferable, because I think it's going to be too much of an advantage if you can take control of whoever you like, do what you want with them, and then have them return to normal.

The game does not let you attack dominated creatures without breaking the spell. What I am referring to is when domination expires. It doesn't really make sense the creature isn't conscious if the game doesn't allow you to talk to it. Then again, this could be Bioware's fault.

 

Regardless of telepathic powers, I would consider turning hostile if I saw someone cast some random shit at me. The 50% chance accounts for them not understanding/noticing/caring. I think once again game balance favours this approach, since there should be some penalty for repeatedly trying to charm somebody.

Still, when calculating failure, many things should be taken into account (ie. improved invisibility should eliminate all types of failure unless the subject can see invisible creatures). In AD&D, there is a subtelity roll that solves this problem, but is absent in BGII. In a sense, my proposal is similar to that.

 

-Galactygon

[CamDawg]

This is a good idea, but I'll need to investigate the feasability first.