Tutu Tweaks Shapeshifter Rebalancing

[Macready]

Hello -

 

I just tried out the shapeshifter rebalancing component of Tutu Tweaks, and this component is in desperate need of nerfing when used with Tutu. Both of the paws yield +8 to hit, which essentially means that a level 1 shapeshifter becomes roughly equivalent to a level 9 fighter (2 attacks per round, base THAC0 +8) once they use the paw -- and level 9 as a fighter is not even attainable within the TotSC XP cap.

 

Furthermore, immunity to normal weapons is vastly overpowered in BG1. Only a small percentage of enemies in the game are even going to be able to inflict any damage at all.

 

Might I suggest a reworking of the regular shapeshifter paw for Tutu? I am thinking:

 

* remove immunity to normal weapons

* change +8 THAC0 bonus to +1 bonus (or +2 at most)

* change 1d12 damage back to 1d6 or 1d8

 

Even with these substantial nerfs, the rebalanced shapeshifter would still be a formidable kit in Tutu. As it stands now, the shapeshifter is unplayable with this component installed.

[CamDawg]

Hello -

 

I just tried out the shapeshifter rebalancing component of Tutu Tweaks, and this component is in desperate need of nerfing when used with Tutu.  Both of the paws yield +8 to hit, which essentially means that a level 1 shapeshifter becomes roughly equivalent to a level 9 fighter (2 attacks per round, base THAC0 +8) once they use the paw -- and level 9 as a fighter is not even attainable within the TotSC XP cap.

 

Furthermore, immunity to normal weapons is vastly overpowered in BG1.  Only a small percentage of enemies in the game are even going to be able to inflict any damage at all.

 

Might I suggest a reworking of the regular shapeshifter paw for Tutu?  I am thinking:

 

* remove immunity to normal weapons

* change +8 THAC0 bonus to +1 bonus (or +2 at most)

* change 1d12 damage back to 1d6 or 1d8

 

Even with these substantial nerfs, the rebalanced shapeshifter would still be a formidable kit in Tutu.  As it stands now, the shapeshifter is unplayable with this component installed.

Wes has mentioned a few times that it's designed for a game of Tactics-level difficulty and is overpowered for BG2 as well. In general, Tactics is where Wes sets his difficulty target (which is why his NPCs are also overpowered). I'm a bit hesitant to change the Shapeshifter Rebalancing component, mainly because it's not mine.

 

I agree that in the BG portion of the game, it's even more ridiculous (especially given the lack of a BG Tactics-equivalent). An alternative would be the Refinement's shapeshifter changes (never tried it, but I've seen good things written about it) if you could entice the bigg to port them to Tutu, or Yet Another Shapeshifter Option. If I were to develop my own Shapeshifter changes, I'd probably stick them in Divine Remix anyway.

 

Sorry, I know this doesn't address your concerns.

[Drew]

if you could entice the bigg to port them to Tutu, or Yet Another Shapeshifter Option.

No need. It installs just fine over Tutu already.

[Anomaly]

I can confirm that Weimer's Shapeshifter rebalancing is way overpowered in many ways :

- Unlimited shapeshifting

- Spellcasting possible while shapeshifted

- New spells for druids, especially animal conjuration is REALLY powerful

 

Refinement's shapeshifter rebalancing is really good (I have played with it) : it brings really some interests to the shapeshifter class without the 3 majors drawbacks listed above.

[Macready]

Hello -

 

Well, perhaps mark the Weimer version as Tutu-incompatible in the Tweak mega pack that is in development? You could even give Refinements some free advertising by mentioning it in the error string.

[cmorgan]

If we are voting/commenting/etc., I think that it would be great if it was marked with a warning, or better yet skipped on a tutu install -- the Weimer component is definitely a Tutu game-buster. While I'm at it, if we could ask the bigg if his option could borrowed from Refinements and incorporated, perhaps flagger at install the way the Banter Accellerator is, I think it classifies as a very important TutuTweak... it could be

[CamDawg]

Honestly, if it were up to me it wouldn't be included at all--but since the combined package is supposed to include all of Ease of Use, in it goes. I think a warning is an excellent idea, but I don't think removing the ability to install it is necessarily a good idea. I've never been a fan of trying to tell players what they can and can't do with their game.

[cmorgan]

Fair enough... caveat emptor, or some such Latin phrase! I understand allowing powergamers the access to gameplay-breaking mods (as opposed to game-breaking bugs), but I'm in favor of a more robust warning system on things, especially when they go into combined packages. I know that mods are supposed to let players have the choices; I just wish that since few folks read the ReadMe files the installation sequence could be more info-heavy (and warning heavy). Then again, I tend to not want any mod to have a blanket install option, and wish that one could require reading the documentation before blindly installing stuff, which is why I love that GROUP, SUBCOMPONENT, and FORCED_SUBCOMPONENT work you and the bigg did -- ask up front, provide more textual info, and stop the blanket install.