NPC character concept - half-orc cleric-thief

[Lemernis]

Thanks for the encouragement I really enjoy dreaming up characters, so even if I'm unable to realize a mod at the end of the process I think I'll have fun with it regardless.

 

I think the most realistic approach for me is to simply write the banters, learn how they are implemented into the game, and make the character available in the Temple Ruins map. That's all.

 

I really, really hope that implementing banters follows a relatively simple formula. The project is doable if that's the case.

 

It'd be neat to make him romanceable, but I'm sure that would be way over my head. Ditto for the proposed quest. I'm a non-coder, there's no way.

 

However I intend to write him so that the Fire Plane quest could be implemented at a later date, along with a romance perhaps, should he prove to be a popular character.

 

There'll be a lot to recommend him. The character class is great--I think most who are unfamiliar with Cleric-Thieves will be very pleased with it. The portrait and the Bioware Male001 soundset work well together. That soundset is a bit on the surly side, but it's fine overall. On that account, though, I may have to revise the character concept to make him gruffer, less of a peacenik. I think I'll run with the idea of having him be something of a hothead towards Evil whenever he detects it. Then certain of his action response lines like the annoyed "yeah, yeah", and his battle cry such as "I am the Fist of Death!" etc., don't strike a horribly false note.

 

So from this point on, really, it's a matter of developing a truly fresh and entertaining personality for him. There are good tensions to work with from a fiction point of view, he should have some fun quirks and self-contradictions. Hopefully all that'll just spring forth effortlessly as I write the banters.

[Lemernis]

Okay, well I guess I've found the basic instructions I need to pursue this:

 

http://forums.pocketplane.net/index.php/topic,52.0.html

 

But I'm still meditating on the character a bit... and I want to ask a question about what you all feel would be more appealing in this character...

 

I've been mulling making this half-orc priest of Chauntea from Purskul as a kind of almost surly, self-styled wanna-be paladin, who has an intense reaction to Evil wherever he finds it...

 

Is that too much, do you think? I.e., does making him 'complex' in that way feels contrived?

 

I'd love for there to be a subtly humorous quality to this character, wherein he acts out of his own blindspots. For him to be endearingly out-of-touch with the fact that he is, on the one hand, a devout priest of a sort of hippy goddess--yet, on the other hand, full of all sorts of displaced aggression. That in turn is an extension of his problems reconciling his massive rejection of his orc heritage that I have referred to already. (He identifies entirely with his human side and hates Orcdom with a passion.)

 

I don't really intend to get any deeper with it than that, psychologically. And I don't intend for him to resolve those issues. But perhaps there could be this disconnect within him between, on the one hand, serving Chauntea so sincerely and devoutly, and upholding her religious ethos, etc.; and on the other hand, a compulsion within him that he ffels he has to go around aggressively erradicating Evil wherever he may find it.

 

Chauntea is all about nurturing, and making things grow. She embodies a very maternal kind of energy. But Eldarian would feel that in order to make that which is Good thrive, one must erradicate Evil in the same way that a garderner acts aggressively and preemptively against plant pests and diseases. Faiths and Pantheons says "like their deity, most who server Chauntea are patient and quiet, slow to anger, and prefer passive diplomacy to open conflict." Eldarian would be very different--he's a much more of a hothead.

 

One of the things about the clergy of Chauntea that would help make this feel authentic is that the church is a highly individualistic one with no central authority.

 

Banters with other NPCs would at times take the form of the NPCs pointing this contradiction out to Eldarian. At least for the higher Int and Wis characters.

 

Alternatively, I could make him more one-dimensional, and simply be Neutral or Chaotic Good. Then he'd be much more in the traditional mold of a Chauntean cleric. Even just a standard, more stereotypical priest of Chantea should provide some fun banters.

 

In sum, I worry that I might make the character so overly complicated that it feels forced. But I think it might be fun for him to be almost comical in his lack of insight.

 

Any thoughts? (Sorry for being so longwinded, as usual.)

[berelinde]

If you make his wisdom too flawed, and his hipocrisy too obvious, you will be creating another Anomen. Don't get me wrong. I love Anomen. But the game already has one.

 

If it were me, I'd focus more on his goodness than on his law/chaos stance and go ahead and make him neutral good. I don't know if you need to make him too much of a hothead to make him stand out. Many will aready perceive him to be a charicature. I would make him tolerant in ways orcs would never be, rebelling against the rigidity that marred the social structure of the orcsc striving to show by example that someone who looks orcish can still be a good person. But that's just me.

 

There's still room for lots of humor. That's a good thing. My big beef with the BioWare NPCs is that apart from Imoen, intelligent, good-aligned NPCs have no sense of humor. Include Jaheira in there, too. She takes herself far too seriously.

[Lemernis]

Thanks! Excellent point about the Wisdom! For the character to be funnest to play he needs as many spell slots as possible. And that won't work for the possible 'paladin wannabe' I've outlined.

[Grim Squeaker]

Okay, I've split this topic as it's now focusing on the coding aspect as opposed to just the 'mod idea'. It can now be found in Modding Q&A as Starting to code Eldarian. I can change the topic title if you want.

[Lemernis]

While I struggle to wrap my pea brain around coding dialogs, I'm still continuing with thought about the character's interaction with other party members. I think there is some potentially rich material to work with. Some notes on Chauntea:

 

Chauntea

 

* greater deity, known as the "Great Mother"

* NG "benefactor" temperment; benevolent, loving goddess

* welcomes both genders and all races to worship her

* very popular deity among farmers and the underclasses (servants, peasants, laborers)

* Chauntea supports a healthy marriage of civilization and wilderness, emphasizing conscientious stewardship of Nature; Chauntea values adaptation, compromise, humility, and patience

* one of the eldest deities, created in a battle between Shar and Selune; assisted and favored thereafter by Selune and Mystra; originally known by the name of "Jannath" (still worshipped by that name in Moonshaes)

* opposed to all Evil deities, and their destructiveness, maliciously harmful behavior, etc.

* Talona, whose diseases infest crops, and Talos, whose storms ravage farmers' fields, are particularly inimical to Chauntea

* most friendly with Lathander, with whom she has at times been intimate

* home plane is Elysium

 

Chauntean Clergy:

 

* two types of priest: Pastorals (usually clerics), who assist farmers, and "True Shapers" (usually druids), who preserve the wilderness; these two types of priest are philosophically at odds

* Silvanic druids regard Chauntea's support of civilization as an affront, they are opposed to the dogma of Pastoral clerics; Silvanic druids (just certain sects?) are aligned with Chauntean "True Shaper" druids in their opposition to Chauntean Pastorals

* females vastly outnumber males in the clergy

* church has no central authority; clergy tend to be highly individualistic

* clerics tend to wear brown robes

* pray for spells at sundown

* industrious, hardworking; priests also farm and garden in addition to performing clerical duties

* appreciate beauty and meditation

* instruct congregants on proper methods of planting, identification of plant and animal diseases, and herblore

* strong emphasis on fertility; Greengrass is celebrated as a kind of orgy (similar to the Greek "Bacchanalia" or Roman "Saturnalia")

* at the start of the harvest Chauntean priests hold a perrenial ceremony, during which they read "High Prayers of the Harvest"

* a form of "Holy Communion" is often used as a rite of passage for the clergy

* many priests perform marriages and act as midwives for human and animal births

* newlywedded couples are encouraged to consumate their marriage in a freshly tilled field

 

Ethos

 

* wanton destruction is antithetical to the cycle of life

* nourish at least one living thing every day

* eschew fire

 

It's unclear to me exactly how Jaheira and Cernd would react to a Chauntean Pastoral cleric. Favorably, I would imagine. I would think both Jaheira and Cernd support a balance between the forces of civilization and wilderness. As far as I can tell they're both opposed to the Avenger, militant types such as Faldorn's sect. But otherwise I'm not sure where they fall within the various sects of Silvanic druidism. I'm not sure what kind of friction there might be, if any.

 

The exchange between Nalia and Eldarian regarding her betrothal to Isaea Roenall could be fun. In fact, Eldarian might offer his uniquely 'Chauntean' counsel regarding all of the romances, but that's for a deluxe version.

 

Eldarian would be very supportive of the Temple of Lathander quests, particularly the fight with the temple of Talos since Talos is a hated enemy of Chauntea. Eldarian would encourage seeking a peaceful resolution, of course. But failing that I think he'd approve of doing whatever is necessary, as Lathander should be a highly respected deity of the Chauntean clergy. (Then again Chauntean clerics are highly individualistic, so perhaps not.)

 

Eldarian would strongly encourage completion of the dryad acorn quest. In the same vein, he'd strongly urge helping any farmer in the game.

 

Anything involving fertility and birth would be sacred to Eldarian, so he'd be a strong advocate of helping Adalon regain her clutch of eggs. Indeed, he would probably leave the party if they refuse to help her, or attack her at the very end of the quest.

 

It would be interesting to try to work in some way with a Chauntean cleric's ability to identify diseases, and knowledge of herbalism. Presumably the implementation of herbal items would constitute a major project in its own right. (Far beyond my ability, obviously.) Anyway, not sure if I can find a way to fit that sort of material into banters, but maybe so.

 

I expect that the lack of a central authority for the Chauntean church would probably bother Anomen. It'd all be too freeform and wifty in his eyes. They'd debate that lack of structure and discipline. Clerics of Torm tend to smite evil and lawlessnes wherever they find it, and Pastoral clerics of Chauntea would seek peaceful resolutions. They'd debate the different approaches to fighting evil.

 

Banters about appreciation of nature's beauty, peace and tranquility, would evoke a wide variety of responses from the various NPCs.

 

How annoying do you feel it would it be if whenever dusk is falling, Eldarian asks (interjects as indicated) the party to stop whatever its doing so the he can pray? There must be a trigger for when the outdoor lighting in the game starts changing to that rosey, sunset hue according to the clock. If that isn't too hard to code. I'm not asking how to code it here, just asking from the vanatage of the mod's gameplay.

[berelinde]

In your second bulleted item under "clergy," I think you meant to say that *shadow* druids would oppose Chauntean etc. Sylvanic druids subscribe to the peaceful coexistance of civilization and nature.

 

I believe it would be possible to code Eldarin to request a prayer break at sundown every day, but I think it would get old fast. You could write a sort of mini quest where he gets permission to pray whenever the party otherwise rests and does the prayertime interjection once a week or at specific times.

[Lemernis]

Source on the Silvanic druid thing was Wikipedia, which I realize is probably not the most authoritative:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauntea

 

I don't own any 2e AD&D source books (other than A Grand Tour of the Realms), so I rely on whatever I can glean from the internet.

 

Shadow Druids is what I was thinking of, sure enough. Apparently the author of the wiki article wasn't aware of the distinction between that particular sect of Silvanic druidism, and Silvanic druidism as a whole. (I'm not up on it myself).

 

I agree that the the prayer break thing would probably tend to irritate most players. Adds depth to the chartacter. But most would probably find it a nuisance as far as gameplay goes.

 

Gameplay is interrupted to begin with by the dusk movie (right? or am I thinking of BG1? does BG2 also have this?) And if it were to generate banters then it might be enjoyable, depending of course on how well written they are. But my guess is that, overall, most players would feel it imposes too much on the flow of the game.

[Andyr]

Thinking about praying, I think it might be nice to have one banter trigger at sunset but I don't think it is worth stopping the party to pray every day. Many deities in the Realms pray at specific times, something which isn't handled currently at all by the game.

 

So, yeah, I'd say he could chat about sundown being his traditional time to pray but I'd not force him to spend hours doing it daily, or prevent him memorising spells at other times of day.

[Lemernis]

Oh, right! I didn't mean to imply he would ask to rest and memorize his spells every day at dusk, as that is definitely too much of an imposition on gameplay (imho). Something more along the lines of a banter where he mentions that he offers prayers at that time. And uses that to share his Chauntean views on the glorious beauty of nature being captured by the sunset. That he was taught to appreciate it like a fragrant blooming rose. That it's an ideal time to for meditation, and so on. Nothing too esoteric, or overdrawn, but it gives other characters a chance offer some feedback.

 

Viconia would go on about Shar and the night, and the only good thing about the sunset being that the blazingly painful sun is leaving the sky.

 

Korgan would make fun of those sentiments, and use that to bait him.

 

Edwin would fire off something derisively funny.

 

Aerie would no doubt relate it in some way to her flightlessness, and her sense of loss. Perhaps eliciting futher words from Viconia about Shar.

 

As a ranger attuned to nature, Valygar would appreciate it.

 

It might evoke at least one extemporaneously composed poem by Haer'Dalis. A poem relating the setting of the sun to death.

 

That's probably about it. Unless Minsc chimes in with something like "Ah yes, pretty colors and clouds. Boo likes sunset too. He says it reminds him of sailing the skies on his home world as captain of his own spelljammer." A conversation that could go almost anywhere, heh!

[Andyr]

^ Yeah, that'd be nice to see.

[SixOfSpades]

While the concept of Eldarian has been an interesting read, and sounds like a worthwhile NPC, so far this thread has been describing a Half-Orc Cleric. Where does the Thief part come in? True, a Multiclassed character will be far more useful than a trueclass, but you've got to justify Eldarian's Thief half if you really want him to be a believable character--and personally, I don't see many links between Chauntea and thievery.

 

If I may toot my own horn here for a minute, I too have designed a Half-Orc Cleric/Thief. . . but don't worry, they're different enough to not step on each other's toes. Edna Spenk grew up in the docks area of Waterdeep, where she learned to become a thieving ruffian with the other poor children. After she narrowly escaped death in a construction accident at a Temple of Tymora, she pledged her services to the deity, and uses the blessings she gains therefrom to better her skills as a Thief--and donates much of the profits from her exploits back to her clergy, to benefit other adventurers. Her Cleric and Thief halves go hand-in-hand.

[Lemernis]

How Eldarian came by his thieving skills is explained in considerable detail in the first post in his Bio and Quest sections. He was given a quest by the high priests of Chauntea's Cradle in Crimmor to solve the mystery of the curse upon Purskul's Rose House. The main clue Eldarian has is that the mystery is in some way linked to the lost subterranean civilization of Shanatar. Eldarian has become a kind of self-styled archeological sleuth who eagerly seeks out any ancient underground ruins he can find. He soon learned how dangerous that can be, so he spent a year training with the Shadow Thief guildmaster of Purskul in the arts of stealth, trap detection/removal, and lock picking in order to survive in that endeavor.

 

In this way he's not your traditional thief. He's a priest tasked with a mission by his church, for which he took it upon himself to learn the necessary thieving skills.

[BigRob]

Actually, not sure how I missed this before, but having him trained by a Shadow Thief guildmaster seems a little heavy going. The Shadow Thieves don't generally work with non-members, so there'd have to be some reason that the guildmaster would train up such a lawful good priest in the thiefly arts.

 

I could understand a member of the Shadow Thieves doing it, perhaps an older one who wasn't as heavily involved with the kind of serious crimes that a guildmaster would be involved in, and so more palatable for Eldarian to work with. A retired adventurer might also work better, since they are likely to have their skills oriented in the dungeon crawling direction anyway.

[Lemernis]

First, I'll say that I think your idea is better, Rob.

 

Sorry, my language was a little vague there with "guildmaster." The term I should have used is "silhouette." Here I'll share some of my notes from Lands of Intigue on the Shadow Thieves to put it into better context:

 

The highest ranking position in Shadow Thieves' organization is the Grandmaster of Shadows. He is leader of the Shade Council, a body of the nine most powerful Shadow Thieves. The eight lesser members, also know as Shades, are comprised of the guildmasters of various Shadow Thief sects. Two Shades are responsible for espionage: one based in Saerloon who monitors activities in Amn and Tethryr, and the other based in Baldur's Gate who keeps an eye on the Sword Coast to the north of Amn. Both of these Shades are directly under the control of the Grandmaster of Shadows.

 

The Shadow Thieves are organized into sects. Every city with a population of 10,000 or more has is at least one sect that is divided into two subgroups. These subgroups are controlled by two 'Shadowmasters'. One of these Shadowmasters handles the city, while the other manages the surrounding towns, villages and countryside. Larger cities are subdivided into districts, each with their own sect.

 

Some cities and areas that see a high volume of trade have a Cloakmaster, a special Shadowmaster who deals with foreign powers. Cloakmasters report to the Shades of Saerloon and Baldur's Gate, but they may provide reports to local Shades as well.

 

Next in the Shadow Thieves hierarchy come 'guildmasters' of the subsect, also known as 'Silhouettes'. Silhouettes report to Shadowmasters.

 

There are subguilds for assassins, beggars, courtesans, merchants, bounty hunters, burglars, con artists and tricksters, scouts and spies, fences, smugglers, pirates.

 

So what I really intended is that this 'Silhouette' is a the head of a Shadow Thief subsect in a town (not even a city). Purskul isn't very big, it has a population of 10,000. There probably isn't that much action there, it's bascially a farm town

 

I think I had in the back of my mind that the high priests of the temple of Chauntea in Crimmor prevail upon the Shadow Thief Guild Master in Crimmor to in turn call in favor for the 'Silhouette' of the Theives Guild in Purskul.

 

Not that it needs to be related, there is something unusual going on with the Shadow Thieves in Crimmor. For some reason (unexplained in LoI), The Guild Master of Theives there has declared Crimmor a theft-free zone. It's not clear why, though there is some speculation that is may involve a debt owed the Crytrapper family. At any rate, the Shadow Thieves actually police that town to keep independent thieves from robbing folks. Quite unusual.