mage HLAs in FMT/FMC

[Guest tribunal]

I'm about to start a new game, but before I do, I'm just wondering if you remove the xp cap, does the mage HLAs open up? Or will you still be restricted to only the fighter and thief/cleric HLAs even after the xp cap is disabled?

 

 

thanks

[Guest tribunal]

so no one knows? or is this the wrong forum to ask about this? I thought it is related to the remove XP cap component of the mod

[CamDawg]

Sorry, I'm still trying to catch up on my backlog.

 

TBH, this is something I had never even considered but I don't think there's much we can do. HLA tables are limited to 24 slots--originally FMTs and FMCs had no mage HLAs at all, but the Fixpack (and Baldurdash before it) adds the three Extra Level X Spell HLAs back to the tables. After those, there is only one slot left for the FMT table and two for FMCs, but six more mage HLAs (Comet, Dragon's Breath, Energy Blades, Improved Alacrity, good and evil Summon Planetar).

[Guest Guest]

Sorry, I'm still trying to catch up on my backlog.

 

TBH, this is something I had never even considered but I don't think there's much we can do. HLA tables are limited to 24 slots--originally FMTs and FMCs had no mage HLAs at all, but the Fixpack (and Baldurdash before it) adds the three Extra Level X Spell HLAs back to the tables. After those, there is only one slot left for the FMT table and two for FMCs, but six more mage HLAs (Comet, Dragon's Breath, Energy Blades, Improved Alacrity, good and evil Summon Planetar).

 

yes, I remember years back Kevin Dorner added that fix so that the 3 extra mage HLAs that you mentioned are added. I also remember a few years back someone on the Gamebanshee forums created a mod to fix this problem. Unfortunately, i can't remember the name of the mod or the author.

 

Anyway, that person took a poll on the forums as to what are the least used HLAs for FMT or FMC (like Scribe Scroll, Alchemy, etc) and he/she removed them, and added the cool ones like Comet, Improved ALacrity, Planetar, etc. I know this isn't really a "fix", but I just wish something like this was implemented in the Tweak pack.

[tribunal]

oops! the above post was by me... thought I was already logged on.

[CamDawg]

Sure, something like that would be easy enough. We'd be looking to trim 4 HLAs from FMCs and 5 from FMTs. Let's use this thread as suggestions for what to drop, then we can run a poll to vote.

 

Fighter

Critical Strike

Deathblow

Greater Deathblow

Greater Whirlwind Attack

Hardiness

Power Attack

Resist Magic

Smite

War Cry

Whirlwind Attack

 

Mage

Comet

Dragon's Breath

Energy Blades

Extra Level 6 Spell

Extra Level 7 Spell

Extra Level 8 Spell

Improved Alacrity

Summon Dark Planetar

Summon Planetar

 

Cleric

Aura of Flaming Death

Elemental Summoning

Energy Blades

Globe of Blades

Implosion

Mass Raise Dead

Storm of Vengeance

Summon Deva

Summon Fallen Deva

 

Thief

Alchemy

Assassination

Avoid Death

Evasion

Greater Evasion

Scribe Scrolls

Set Exploding Trap

Set Spike Trap

Set Time Trap

Use Any Item

 

Myself, I'd drop Smite, Deathblow, and Greater Deathblow from both. For FMTs the last would be Scribe Scrolls and Alchemy and, for MFCs, Mass Raise Dead.

[berelinde]

If it were me, I'd lose Mass Raise Dead. If you're in that bad shape, an HLA isn't going to help.

[tribunal]

Now we're talking!!!

 

After looking at the descriptions for each HLA, here is what I can conclude.

 

 

Fighter:

====

 

Deathblow and Greater Deathblow - I agree, these are pretty much useless, and I'm sure most can live without them.

 

Smite?? No way!!! This is one of the most useful HLAs that comes in handy when you play Ascension solo on Insane (especially against melissan and other tough mage spell casters who cannot be interrupted while casting).

 

Instead, I would suggest War Cry - I doubt anyone counts on War Cry as a life saver to win battles

 

 

Mage:

===

 

If playing as a FMC, we have two Energy Blades HLA (one for mage, and other for cleric) I guess one of them, probably from the mage, can be removed.

 

 

If playing as a FMT, then in my opinion, nothing from mage should be removed. Every spell is extremely important.

 

 

Cleric:

====

Again nothing, IMHO, should be removed as each hla is extremely useful.

 

(By now, for FMC, we eliminated Deathblow, Greater Deathblow, War Cry, and Energy Blades. There should be enough room to fill all the other HLAs now.)

 

 

Thief:

=====

Obviously Alchemy and Scribe scroll - since these two are the most useless HLAs. Everything else is fine.

 

(By now, for FMT, we eliminated Deathblow, Greater Deathblow, War Cry, Alchemy, and Scribe Scroll. Again, there should be enough room to fill up the other HLAs).

 

 

 

I think this is how the original author of that mod had it too. I can't for the life of me, remember the name of that mod or author sadly. Its been a while since I played BG.

[BigRob]

I'd agree that Mass Raise Dead probably isn't worth having for the F/M/Cs. If that many of the party have gone down, you're on the cusp of either victory or oblivion.

 

 

I'd say War cry from the fighters can go, the others are generally far too useful.

 

Scribe scroll and Alchemy have some use, but if you need more to drop, those are probably the ones to drop (as well as one of the energy blades for a F/M/C)

[tribunal]

re: Mass Raise Dead

 

I think people are vastly underestimating the importance of this HLA. When you play the game on Insane/solo with the "tougher" mods like Ascension, Tactics, Improved Asylum, Super Firkraag, Imp. Battles, etc PLUS the 'Tougher Enemies' component of MixMod which makes all the aforementioned mods even more harder than they already are , you would be surprised at how much this ability comes in handy. This isn't 'single' raise dead we're talking about, its MASS Raise Dead. All those dead high level summons coming back to life during those desperate times will definitely turn the tide.

[Nythrun]

Mass raise dead doesn't really work outside of party members (even if cast by enemies, sigh).

 

I yank Power Attack, War Cry, and Resist Magic.

[Guest Guest]

hmm.. you're right about Mass raise dead. I was probably thinking of something else. Heh. My memory is still fuzzy from playing bg2 over a year back.

 

as for power attack, if its removed, then you won't be able to have access to Smite and Critcal Strike, which IMO is a big

[pro5]

hmm.. you're right about Mass raise dead. I was probably thinking of something else. Heh. My memory is still fuzzy from playing bg2 over a year back.

 

as for power attack, if its removed, then you won't be able to have access to Smite and Critcal Strike, which IMO is a big

 

Actually it's up to whoever is designing the HLA table, we can make Smite and Critical Strike have some other HLA as prerequisite.

[tribunal]

Actually it's up to whoever is designing the HLA table, we can make Smite and Critical Strike have some other HLA as prerequisite.

 

It wouldn't make much sense if you remove/modify the prerequisites according to the way we want. This would be breaking the game rules and just ruin the fun. Using your logic, I can say 'we don't need Whirlwind or DeathBlow or Evasion and just go straight to GWW, or Greater death blow or Greater Evasion or have just one common HLA for all three' but I'm sure you'll agree that this sounds silly.

 

The point of this thread is to show this is a bug (especially when you use the same reasoning behind the Extra level 6,7,8 hlas missing out bug). And the proper way to fix it would be to just add all the HLAs. But since we know there is no room to add all of them, I guess the next logical way to fix it would be to remove the least-used abilities while still maintaining the rules as much as possible.

[Nythrun]

And removing the XP cap isn't breaking the rules and ruining the fun?