Idobek Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 - Keldorn (LN, Fighter Class with a possible loss of levels)I think a Fallen Paladin kit would be much more appropriate here. It doesn't have to be the standard Fallen Paladin of the game--it can be customized for Keldorn, including the description. I'd be happy help out here. - Minsc (CN to Beserker Fighter w a possible loss of levels)Same again. I think "fallen" kits are more more appropriate to corrupted paladins and rangers, it shows that they have lost something. Link to comment
Domi Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Thank you, Idobek, I will graciously take you on the offer... It is my general unaptitude with all things kits and items that prevented me thinking in such a simple and elegant way. If only now I could find an artist to make a picture of disheveled booless Minsc with a wild gaze and a tight-lipped haughty Keldorn... Link to comment
Domi Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 To add to that - just saw a post at another forum by leveler, which I think will be a great idea for keldorn: Maybe give her a special kit after her fall, and what deity will she worship if she falls? Cyric maybe, but with his appearance I don't think he is an option. Maybe Bane, Beshaba, Loviatar, some diety we don't see much of. So is there any interesting LN or LE god for Keldorn? Link to comment
BobTokyo Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 To add to that - just saw a post at another forum by leveler, which I think will be a great idea for keldorn: Maybe give her a special kit after her fall, and what deity will she worship if she falls? Cyric maybe, but with his appearance I don't think he is an option. Maybe Bane, Beshaba, Loviatar, some diety we don't see much of. So is there any interesting LN or LE god for Keldorn? Helm, in his "Justice Above All" aspect. As you've said, few things are more frightenning than a person who is absolutely, unbendingly devoted to the letter of the law. Link to comment
Domi Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Helm is definetly a good choice, due to the fact that he is not too exotic and is believable for the situation. On another hand, being a traditional "paladin" god, will he accept a fallen paladin? Link to comment
Idobek Posted June 8, 2004 Author Share Posted June 8, 2004 On another hand, being a traditional "paladin" god, will he accept a fallen paladin?I'm not sure it matters if Helm accepted him or not. I'm sure Helm wouldn't grant him any spells or abilities but Keldorn could still be devoted. The is no-one more fanatical than a convert after all. Link to comment
Domi Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Good point. He might also try to prove his worth to the god, which will be quite fitting with a corruption line... What are your thoughts on the kit abilities? Link to comment
Idobek Posted June 8, 2004 Author Share Posted June 8, 2004 What are your thoughts on the kit abilities?I don't really know. Currently a (PC) fallen paladin loose his priest scroll access, the turn undead ability and, I believe, all the paladin special abilities. Would a fallen paladin have any special abilities? It would depend of how much of a paladin's power derives from his (sorry, or her) god. On the other hand not giving him anything would gimp him a little as a character. Or maybe not, simply allowing him to attain grand mastery might be enough. Now he is not a paladin he has more time to devote to weapons after all. The important thing to note here is that his kit is still of the paladin class and that means access to paladin only weapons generally the most powerful weapons available. Link to comment
BobTokyo Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 What are your thoughts on the kit abilities?I don't really know. Currently a (PC) fallen paladin loose his priest scroll access, the turn undead ability and, I believe, all the paladin special abilities. Would a fallen paladin have any special abilities? It would depend of how much of a paladin's power derives from his (sorry, or her) god. On the other hand not giving him anything would gimp him a little as a character. Or maybe not, simply allowing him to attain grand mastery might be enough. Now he is not a paladin he has more time to devote to weapons after all. The important thing to note here is that his kit is still of the paladin class and that means access to paladin only weapons generally the most powerful weapons available. How about changing "Barbarian Rage" into "Fanatic Ecstacy"? "The fanatic is absolutely devoted to his cause; When in a state of Fanatic Ecstacy his strength is the strength of ten, for his heart is pure. Ignoring pain, deprivation and all reason, the fanatic is capable of almost anything. Grants +4 STR and CON, immunity to most mind effecting magics." Drop all of Keldorn's other Paladin abilities, don't let him gain grand mastery (which would take many levels anyway unless you reshuffled his proficiency slots), and let him enter a state of Fanatic Ecstacy once per day per four levels? Also, the Holy Avenger should probably reject him; he's no longer a true paladin. Link to comment
Domi Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Let's think on it... Opinions anyone? If you do not mind I am going to split it into a separate topic. Link to comment
BevH Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Just as a side note, with his kit, Keldorn can't turn undead anyway. Link to comment
Guest nurgles_herald Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Though mincs is a berserker in truth, I think it would make more sense in the long run to make him a CN Barbarian. Consdering his personal heritage, his entire family was probably either Barbarians or low-level Rangers (possibly Fighters, but they may not have been sophisticated enough). Barbarians, I'm pretty sure, also get a rage skill, only it doesn't leave them winded and is (generally) a whol let better than the Berserker's rage skill. Plus, we'll get that NPC Barbarian. 1d12 hitpoints, w00 w00t! Of course, if you do decide to make Minsc a Barbarian, you'll have to scale his hitpoints upwards to compensate for the fact that he's been rolling on 1d10's and Baba's get 1d12's... Link to comment
Idobek Posted June 9, 2004 Author Share Posted June 9, 2004 When a PC paladin or ranger falls they simply lose all their class/kit abilities. Without altering that aspect of the game I am not sure providing Keldorn with new abilities is such a good idea. I feel that giving Keldorn a rage ability is going to feel a little cliche (see Anomen in the NPC Kit Pack). Not allowing the use of paladin only weapons to fallen paladins (or just Keldorn's fallen paladin) is possible but generally hacky. On Minsc, he is a ranger if he falls he becomes a fallen ranger I don't see any reason to change his class. I think giving he more instances of his own berserk ability is the way to go here. Fallen rangers also lose their stealth ability, which I think is bollocks--I may change this. I am going to consult the pnp rules governing fallen paladins and rangers and see if I can't come up with better solutions. My thoughts initially were not really based on the kit abilities but rather a good "fallen" description, perhaps unique to the character, perhaps not. Link to comment
Domi Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 I see what you are saying. Imo, there are two options - mimic PC's fall or accomodate the story. F.ex, it would be interesting if Keldorn becomes a fighter with a bonus damage against chaotic alignments and rogue classes if that can be done w/o much troubles and keeps True Sight - I think it is more connected to his training as an inquisitor, than god's connection. As for Minsc - maybe something that makes him closer to Beserker's kit, because of the Rashemi background. Btw, Rashemi are not barbaric Link to comment
Meira Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Hmmm... If you ask me Keldorn should not be able to use the Holy Avanger (or any other paladins only stuff) if he's fallen. Easiest way to implement this would be probably to change his class as suggested. Or it could be scripted - since there isn't that many items that can only be used by paladins if I recall correctly - so that he drops the item if it's equipped. Though that's a always a bit ugly way of handling not-usable-by-things. Maybe you could throw in a nice side effect too, though. Some damage and/or flash of light perhaps? Link to comment
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