Mod Rating

[Cashews]

While the basic romances proposed by BG2 are nicely involving, they are a little tame. PPG's Flirt Pack changes that somewhat, adding some mature content, and the new Romantic Encounters mod takes it even further. Between those and a slew of NPC mods, flirts and love affairs are as much a reality to those bold adventurers as dragon slaying... and about as dangerous.

 

Now I'm an adult and I honestly wouldn't have it any other way. However, considering that I'm somewhat new to this whole mod business, I only had the opportunity to try the Jaheira romance (without RE) and I'm curious as to what I can expect from other romances and mods, in both BG1 and BG2. PG-13 or NC-17?

 

Thanks.

[berelinde]

Are you asking mod writers to weigh in on the maturity rating of the mods they wrote? BG2 vanilla has the label on the box: teen. Some mods, including Romantic Encounters, BG1 NPC, and Gavin, do include this information. Others don't necessarily, but they might include clues somewhere along the way, or in the discussion forums.

[cmorgan]

Personal Oprinon Follows- this is Not Representative of Any Community Or Authority .

 

In my opinion (and I teach middle schoolers so have to keep tabs on the pop culture and pre-teen/teen stuff just to underrstand their references) none of the default Bioware romances make it even to Nickelodian/Disney TV status (there are tougher and more explicit materials discussed on DeGrassi Junior High and such 12-16 year old fare). There are no descriptions of activity.

 

PPG Flirt pack has the possibility of diving over into movie fare, mostly for description - but there are very few scenes which would make it go beyond afternoon soap opera status (although the Flirtpack writing is considerably more polished and strong; I am talking about steamyness/age appropriateness.) I carefully read everything in the Flirtpack to guage how much ewas too much, and found the only encounter that might make it into a Sharon Stone vehicle was Viconia's bathing scene, if you had the right responses; that was about the most graphic evocative scene and it was no where near 91/2 Weeks or even Basic Instinct.

 

The BG1 NPC Project has immersive romances, and the ones marked Adult are much more about character development and interaction than depiction. Coran has a more "graphic" element, and Dynaheir disrobes, etc. - and SharTeel flirts with some violence and danger. But in each case the Adult rating was certainly conservative interpretations (the authoresses in question are highly attuned to this question, and want their romances to be taken and played seriously. The "Adult" here comes in that there is some pretty dep character interaction, which requires thought to actually understand the themes involved.) Again, much more graphic depictions come in the movies and on cable (nothing makes it to Sex in the City on cable status.)

 

The Romantic Encounters mod Adult rating is much more seriously earned. If it is marked Adult in RE, it is adult as in "There will be specific and anatomical reference to sexual acts with or without a level of violence, and there will be descriptive and evocative erotic content intended to get adult glasses steamy and hopefully require cold showers afterwards." Without the Adult rating, most fall around Flirtpack level; with the Adult rating, it is by adults for adults (hoipefully tastefully done, but everyone's tastes vary on this, as do their defiinitions). nlike most other mods, it also has some imited support for homosexual relationships, which in some people's books merges over into R territory, but is commonplace on Degrassi and many of the Teen oriented TV shows (and entire cable stations).

 

 

FanFiction sites are a different story. Things that would not be allowed to make it into mainstream movies (slash, rape, torture, bondage, extreme cruelty, the laundry list of evil and dehumanizing things that people can explore in their authorship) easily outpace any mod out there today. This is where I get off the train and don't look back - I don't read fanfic any more until I have been recommended it by someone I trust or have done a forum search of the comments an the author or story. I explored once and was literally sickened (relatively good writing, but horrible, horrible subject matter) by a depiction of rape and death surrounding the bhaalspwan.

 

The only mod which reaches the level of a number of the Fan Fiction materials, like the slash and violence stuff posted on many fanfiction sites (not my cup of tea, so from now on read this with a grain of salt, as I tend to dislike violnce and force in any way and really detest any depiction of horror/self-mutilation), firmly in the X category, is the Mirrabo "Imoen Romance". There the depictions of knowing incest with or without force, the ability to choose pathways which involve psychological or physical torture, the ability to murder Imoen or provoke her into killing you and ending the game; the list goes on. That mod is not at all my cup of tea, but the author obviously prizes freedom of choice - you can choose to do things that place you in an interactive set of scenes easily rated above X.

 

Sorry for the lecture, but I did pretty extensive research while preparing to try my hand at writing for Romantic Encounters, because I wanted to see what the right level of involvement was. Again, this is all my oprinion.

[berelinde]

It looks like cmorgan has a better idea of the question Cashews was really asking.

 

With that in mind, I can better answer your question about the mod I wrote. I realized that gamers might prefer to customize their game content, and might prefer not to install material they might find offensive, so I made each component separate. It takes a bit longer to install that way, but it does allow the user more freedom of choice.

 

Gavin's friendship path is intended for teens. He talks about war and prostitution, so he's not exactly on par with Shrek. His romance hovers somewhere between teen and adult. I believe there are a few anatomical references, but nothing is mentioned between the navel and the knees. It's supposed to be a bit evocative, but not graphic. His flirt pack (part of the mod, but installable separately) and player-initiated dialogue are definitely more adult.

[Cashews]

Are you asking mod writers to weigh in on the maturity rating of the mods they wrote?

 

Yes and no. I was mostly asking the players how they felt about the various romances and flirts available in-game or through mods. I know from personnal experience that it's very hard for someone to rate his own writings and, in this case, I'm pretty sure that playing it is very different from writing it.

 

Now...

 

If I understand this well, Vicky's the naughty girl and I should keep RE from the kids. Ok, shall do. What about the other ones? Aerie, for example, caught me a little by surprise the first time I read about her 'sweet blue eyes and swaying hips'. I didn't go any further with her however, so I don't know how she's like later on. And what about the male romances and flirts? From what I read here and there, some ladies are just crazy about Edwin and Xan.

 

Anyway, thanks you both for your input.

[berelinde]

Oh, OK.

 

The original BioWare romances are all fairly tame. They are certainly no worse than the overall maturity rating of the game would suggest.

 

Out of the box:

Viconia: mentions rape

Aerie: has the potential to bear the PC's child in ToB

Jaheira: nothing shocking, unless you consider a recently widowed woman seeking consolation in the arms of her ward shocking

Anomen: probably tamer than the other romances

 

With the flirt pack:

See cmorgan's description. Probably all "mature" without being "adult."

 

Mods:

I can only talk about romanceable male NPCs, because I haven't played the female ones.

Edwin: "teen." Nothing too alarming. He's sarcastic, but I wouldn't bat an eye if I found out my 17 year old niece were playing the romance.

Kelsey: "mature," on par with PPG Flirt Pack. He, too, displays some aquatic talents.

Kivan: "teen" to "mature." It's evocative, all right, but it is definitely not graphic.

Solaufein: "teen," but only because it's available to a PC of either gender. The flirtpaqck still in beta at RPG Dungeon definitely gives the romance a little more zing, but it's tame enough to be almost entirely gender neutral.

Tsujatha: "mature." There's a sex scene which describes what's going on under the PC's skirts, but the rest of the mod isn't particularly graphic.

Xan: "teen," and on par with BioWare. Sex is inferred, not stated.

[Domi]

Just wanted to mention that Anomen's romance might not be graphic, but it deals with some things that I would rate higher than children-friendly, most probably even R, simply because I would not want anyone who is not ready to deal with violence and casual sex to read it. I am talking about his 'fall from grace' and his consent to sleep with the PC who announces that she does not love him. I don't want to rant here a lot, but I am always dealing with the dilemma of wanting to write for the grown-up audience and knowing that our mods can easily end up in the hands of a 12 year old kid. I know for a certain that my Deathstalker would have had a tripple R rating if that would have helped to limit the audience to the 16+ olds.

 

The IWD2 ratings are discussed in the mod documentations, and basically, I'd insist that all the romances are adult, even though they might be 'falling short' of the full broadcast of the events between the sheets.

[Azkyroth]

While the basic romances proposed by BG2 are nicely involving, they are a little tame. PPG's Flirt Pack changes that somewhat, adding some mature content, and the new Romantic Encounters mod takes it even further. Between those and a slew of NPC mods, flirts and love affairs are as much a reality to those bold adventurers as dragon slaying... and about as dangerous.

 

Now I'm an adult and I honestly wouldn't have it any other way. However, considering that I'm somewhat new to this whole mod business, I only had the opportunity to try the Jaheira romance (without RE) and I'm curious as to what I can expect from other romances and mods, in both BG1 and BG2. PG-13 or NC-17?

 

Thanks.

 

One question worth considering...how much of an issue is explicitness of depiction vs. "badness" (for lack of a better word) of subject matter, in your view?

 

(Oops, this was a bit older than I thought it was x.x sorry.)

[jester]

I think it is fairly simple, if somebody calls a spade a spade and you actually know what he is talking about, you are old enough, if you think he meant walrus its ok too. Since we are talking written words, its all in the head of the reader anyway.

[cmorgan]

I agree with Jester.

 

The advantage of the written word is you can do far more than you expect and still be ok. I remember reading and rereading Alex Panshen(?)'s science fiction coming-of-age story, for its clumsy and awkward (one) sort-of sex scene as an 8 year old, and seeking stuff out in both lierature (Lady Chatterly's Lover, DragonRiders of Pern, Bio of a Space Tryrant, some of the David Eddings series(es), alot of Heinlein's later works, etc.). I don't know how much I understood beyond the mechanics of it, but I know I liked it - I had a relatively open intellectual household, though, and a whole set of sheep, ducks, etc. [yes, I have heard the jokes - go away ] that regularly explained birds and bees graphically as nature intended.

 

The difference was that written word works through the imagination, so things I didn't understand or were not ready for just didn't "connect". I never understood the element of force/mind control over sexuality in Ursula LeGuin's stuff, or the rape element in the Anthony stuff, because I just couldn't picture it. The first "horror" movie I went to with friends really messed me up, because the images were pressed onto me. I had to leave. When it was my mind interpreting, it was "safe" - when someone was showing a graphic image, it became much, much more immediate and dangerous.

[Evaine Dian]

That's what I've been saying all along. You can read pretty much anything, if you don't get it, it doesn't matter and it won't do you any harm.

[cmorgan]

I am soo, soooo far behind on my forum post readings it is actually shameful... yep. What Evaine said!