Restored items: evil path rewards

[Raj]

I think a good way to reintroduce those bg1 items without unbalancing the game would be making them availabe to those evil (greedy ) parties that get very little rewards for roleplaying their allignment: almost always a loss ( or no gain ) in reputation, smaller xp gain, some side quests become unavailabe. More incentives to join the dark side I'd say

 

Examples:

 

The halfling merchant in Tradeemet who ask low reputation parties to poison the druid grove: doing so grants you a fight vs druids that was avoidable, no heroes of trademeet status ( reputation, nice statues, family tomb quest ), no party quest xp and ANOTHER Shield of Harmony ( you always get the first from the merchants leader of them if you kill the dao/rakshasas ); I think changing the shield with one of the bg1 items would be cool, I'd say the Spiders Bane Sword would suit well in the hands of a guy who fights nature beings.

 

A evil party can accomplish a task for Firkraag instead of fighting his mage in order to free Garren's child, namely kill Garren himself: the reward is the same Cloak of the Shield the party gets if you decide to fight the dragon, while a more appropriate reward at the end of a mayor quest could be the Cloak of Balduran. I'd say remove that Cloak of the Shield altogether, there already is one in the Astral Prison, so that Carsomyr ( +a bunch of xp ) is the 'only' reward for killing Firkraag.

 

Killing Solaupherin when Phaerie asks you to do so: you are going to fight during the demon summoning ritual and miss the evil halberd reward anyway, maybe even the adalon reward ( if your protagonist enjoys the idea of the demon lord corrupting her eggs ): the Helm of Darkness suits well a drow captain, it could be found on his body along with the useless piwaffi.

 

Siding with Lethinian and killing Hendak: very little xp gain, you miss the slave compound quest and the Tuigan Bow: add Eagle Bow or Longbow of Markmanship to his reward.

 

Killing the adventurer trapped in the underdark sphere ( Gond from Riatvin may be his name? ): finding those cursed ( but still somehow useful ) Boots of Phasing on his body might explain his bad luck.

 

Ravelin Strathi (sp?), the mage confined in the same sphere and holding the Albruin bastard sword, might have a Robe of Neutral Archmagi ( not really a restoration but suits him well and neutral mages have to wait till ToB for one... ) for the parties who kill him and miss the sword ( almost everybody )

 

Radiant Plate+2: its name and power value suggest it as a reward for the Paladin Stronghold, in the place of the nicer Pride of the Order+2 ( being only availabe to paladin protagonists is such a shame ), that could be moved on the body of Ordren (sp? the high priest of Helm; the immunities and the name fit the lawful theme), and availabe to the party after they defeat Demogorgon: killing the demon prince is unnecessary and grants no reward, while that plate is powerful enough for that stage of the game ( radiant plate is good for bg1 but a bit weak in SoA, useless in ToB ). This isn't really a ''evil reward'', more a chaotic one, as the Helm emissary suggests that leaving Demogorgon root in his prison would be the best solution.

 

 

That's it for now; the items from the bonus merchants could be split around too but I have no idea how you are going to revision them all and their location should be dependant of their power value.

[BigRob]

I agree that adding some of the old and not too over the top BG1 items could be a good way of making the evil path through the game more attractive and unique. Some of the items may need to be strengthened, however to match up with what the good guys get... +2 is great in BG1, but it doesn't cut the mustard forever in BG2.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Hmm, just to draw a line in the sand I ask you, are we seeing a recreation of Improved Anvil here? -as those suggestions would roll it a bit into that way...

 

- :) :D

[Demivrgvs]

Raj,

 

I like most of your suggestions (I didn't know it was possible to have two Shield of Harmony, it shouldn't really happen considering it's a unique item). I'll open a topic with all items re-allocations (spoilerish) as soon as I start to seriously work on it, quite soon probably. A few things to say are:

1) many items must be put in stores to avoid having too many quest's rewards and accumulate too much gold without having a place to spend it (bonus merchants' items will probably fall in this category, except those SCS itself re-allocates)

2) I won't add/change quests

3) unless clearly out-of-place I won't move items (e.g. moving Pride of the Order as you suggest doesn't seem necessary, while having Armor of the Hart as reward for an evil mini-quest is clearly wrong imo)

4) I will try to keep a low-profile, I don't want to revolutionize items' allocation

 

I agree that adding some of the old and not too over the top BG1 items could be a good way of making the evil path through the game more attractive and unique. Some of the items may need to be strengthened, however to match up with what the good guys get... +2 is great in BG1, but it doesn't cut the mustard forever in BG2.

As BGT players will find those items in the BG1 portion of the game, they can't be "strengthened" to match BG2 more than BG1. BG1 "balance" take precedence.

 

Hmm, just to draw a line in the sand I ask you, are we seeing a recreation of Improved Anvil here? -as those suggestions would roll it a bit into that way...

By which means?

[Jarno Mikkola]

By which means?

Evil suggestions that if made, would make the mod something other than just Item Revisions Mod...

Good answers, by the way.

[Salk]

I must really thank Demivrgvs for keeping in consideration that IR is a mod for BGT players (like myself and many others) too.

 

Personally I am strongly against the return of BG1 items.

 

There are already many mods out there that do this and I do think it is not appropriate for IR to follow this line.

 

Same thing about quest - something that Demivrgvs has wisely pointed out as an impossibility (and he's more than right here as well).

 

I don't think that Jarno should worry with Demivrgvs at the head of this project!

[Shaitan]

I must really thank Demivrgvs for keeping in consideration that IR is a mod for BGT players (like myself and many others) too.

 

Personally I am strongly against the return of BG1 items.

 

There are already many mods out there that do this and I do think it is not appropriate for IR to follow this line.

 

Same thing about quest - something that Demivrgvs has wisely pointedo out as an impossibility (and he's more than right here as well).

 

I don't think that Jarno should worry with Demivrgvs at the head of this project!

 

I've to agree with Raj.

 

Which mods adds BG1 items besides Rabains BG1BG2 items (adding them to Hotel Irenicus) and perhaps UB which is bugged... I'd like to see the suggested items in BG2 via IR and I think Raj made a sensible solution.

[Salk]

Rogue Rebalancing is one of them, if I am not mistaken.

 

BG2 Unfinished Business is another one and it is a widely used Mod just like the one above.

 

You yourself mention one mod that adds item by Rabain (I didn't know about it) and I am sure there are others out there.

 

You agree with Raj.

 

I don't...

[Raj]

@Salk

 

Not everybody plays those mods, they're not from this g3 community and you can't ask a developer to avoid any interference with the dozen of modules out of there, there will always be some incompatibilities but they are easy to avoid with a optional component.

 

In UB the Spider's Bane is found in a silly quest between Pai'na and some idiot adventurers in the sewers ( afaik it's broken too so if it gets restored you can't even end with 2 swords, but it's not like it's a artifact, it holds common enchantments and could have existed in multiple copies ), while the Cloak of Balduran is found on a lame lich in a nameless house in the docks if you install Tactics. Both optionals, both unaffecting the main story.

Rogues Rebalancing restores the Dagger of Venom placing it into Marina's store; beside it being another common item that could exist in multiple copies, it's optional and could be placed by IR in the same store that would get overwritten if you install RR as well.

These are some examples of interferences that won't pose a threat to the overall enjoyment of the game even to those who mix munchkin and lame modules with balanced ones: if you want to play IR alongside with Tactics do that to your own peril I'd say, because Demiurgus states his modules performs good with SCS in mind.

 

If you read the items index topic Demi asks where some restored items could be found, I only provided a solution to a already existing demand.

 

@Jarno

 

I never downloaded Improved Anvil so I don't understand what you mean, but afaik that module is highly uncompatibile with everything else, while my suggestions only aim to swap some items in the npc inventories, being them already existing rewards or something you find on a corpse, nothing revolutionary.

 

@Demi

 

1) Sure it works.

2) I don't think I suggested it, no new dialogues or npcs.

3&4) Ye I was thinking about a place for the weak Radiant Plate more than trying to revolution the paladin stronghold/wk rewards when I had a second thought about it.

Alternate solution: place the Radiant Plate on the body of the Dawnmaster Krell in the Temple of Lathander; I played a evil cleric only one time long ago but I think you are asked to kill everybody there as a last quest fot Talos; or just make it sold at the temple store, cheap solution but it's not very powerful anyway.

 

One more candidate for a restoration is the Silver Amulet: it could protect the driad Vaelasa in the Windspear Hills ( there're both vampires and lycan in that area/dungeon ) so it fits well but she gets killed only if you forceattack her or have questpack installed; alternatively Lady Delcia Caan in the D'Arnise Keep could wear it, for the joy of those who hate her attitude and chose the right answer

[Salk]

Raj,

 

what I said is that I don't agree with IR reintroducing BG1 items because I just simply think it would be out of scope.

 

On top of that, I said that there are already Mods that reintroduce BG1 items in BG2. I think that all this can not be counterdebated. IR is compatible with BG2 UB, with RR, with Tactics and with other mods that do introduce BG2 items. If Demivrgvs wants to keep this mod compatible with those, there can't be an overlapping like 2 BG1 unique items.

 

Of course making it an optional component won't affect me since I'd simply skip it. Still, I wanted to give my opinion without ever intending it to be more than that.

[Mike1072]

Raj,

 

what I said is that I don't agree with IR reintroducing BG1 items because I just simply think it would be out of scope.

If Demi wants to implement them, it would make more sense for him to include them in IR than another mod entirely. He's the authoritative source on the mod's scope. (Version 3 may or may not include a romanceable talking helmet NPC. )

 

On top of that, I said that there are already Mods that reintroduce BG1 items in BG2. I think that all this can not be counterdebated. IR is compatible with BG2 UB, with RR, with Tactics and with other mods that do introduce BG2 items. If Demivrgvs wants to keep this mod compatible with those, there can't be an overlapping like 2 BG1 unique items.

Steps could be taken to ensure continuing compatibility with specific mods that do this to make sure no out of place duplicate items appear.

 

Of course making it an optional component won't affect me since I'd simply skip it. Still, I wanted to give my opinion without ever intending it to be more than that.

We welcome all opinions - thanks for letting us know how you feel on the matter.

[Jarno Mikkola]

On top of that, I said that there are already Mods that reintroduce BG1 items in BG2. I think that all this can not be counterdebated. IR is compatible with BG2 UB, with RR, with Tactics and with other mods that do introduce BG2 items. If Demivrgvs wants to keep this mod compatible with those, there can't be an overlapping like 2 BG1 unique items.

That's far enough, first and foremost it needs to be compatible with BGT, Tutu.

 

(Version 3 may or may not include a romanceable talking helmet NPC. )

Thank you.