Gate Revision

[yarpen]

Hello everyone,

In original PnP "Gate" isn't "summon-goddamn-demon-and-run-away" spell but it's ultimate Summoning of powerfull creatures, which type is depending on summoner's alignment. I know that's not so easy to code and not so easy to select these creatures, but I hope that idea is a lot of fun. More than Pit Fiend summoned by Lawful Good cleric you know. As NightMARE wrote:

 

Because Gate is supposed to be able to summon almost any type of creature the caster wishes, not just Pit Fiends. That would be rather time consuming to implement, but I do plan to make the type of creature summoned depend on the caster's alignment and/or class.

 

LG = Guardian Naga*

NG = Moon Dog

CG = Treant**

LN = Spectator Beholder

N = Neo-Otyugh or Shambling Mound

CN = Marid

LE = Pit Fiend

NE = Dao or Crimson Mist

CE = Balor or Marilith

 

* Would use the green Yuan-ti avatar

** Would obviously require the IWD2 treant avatar

 

In my opinion his creature's selection isn't "great" but still, can be quite useful. I hope that Demi will read this topic and infest it with his brilliant genius.

[Demivrgvs]

Take a look here. I really want to add the "bargain with demons" thing I and Ardanis come up to, and we also discussed what you're currently suggesting.

[Guest guest]

Take a look here. I really want to add the "bargain with demons" thing I and Ardanis come up to, and we also discussed what you're currently suggesting.

 

Definitely like the bargaining thing. Those myriad of gems you get in the game could have an actual use then, not to mention the gem bags, so you actually carry a fair amount long term, rather than just using the bags to hold them till you sell them at the first merchant you find returning from a troll culling session at the De'Arnise.

[yarpen]

Still I think that Gate shouldn't be limited to Pit Fiend, yes, he's powerfull but I think that your version of Spectator (Bane and Helm are both known as "fathers" of Beholder race [not sure about Beholder, Spectator-Tyrant stuff], one people think that Helm created Spectator and then Bane devoured it into Tyrant, others think it was reversed) so giving to Lawful Neutral character a possibility of summoning this creature would be fine. Also, I'm tired of demons as only-one-powerfull-summon. My chaotic good character is capable of summoning Pit Fiend "for good's sake" but Lawful Good? I don't think so.

 

Bargain with demon is a cool idea you know. But maybe instead of gems, you can give to them your blood (-5 to maximum HP) or attributes (-1 to Wisdom or something, that's part of soul). But gems are cool. They actually become quite usefull for high-level parties. What about AI, you can usually take it as granted that if they have demon in their repertoire, they did that so just make a version without dialogue for them.

 

Mhhm. It begs for a new, brand, shiny item (Necronomicon, Demologica or Math's Handbook) that will allow you to summon demons without bargain. Probably obtainable at hell. Or this Irenicus's sidekick from Suldanesselar looks as a good candidate for such an item.

[Constantine]

Bargain with demon is a cool idea you know. But maybe instead of gems, you can give to them your blood (-5 to maximum HP) or attributes (-1 to Wisdom or something, that's part of soul).

Just to let you know, I for one will never use it in that case.

 

But gems are cool. They actually become quite usefull for high-level parties.

I totally agree.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Well, if it goes on the bribing, then the spell could also feature multiple outcomes for multiple alignments... meaning that lets say a LE (Player Char)caster cast the spell, he'll have a 60% chance of getting LE creature... 15% chance of getting NE and 15% chance of getting LN creature, while 10% chance of getting TN creature(and 1% of CG creature, yes the total is 101% ). The Alignment difference would make the creatures harder to bribe, but you can always trade Aeries baby to a demon for it's cooperation...

[Guest guest]

Bargain with demon is a cool idea you know. But maybe instead of gems, you can give to them your blood (-5 to maximum HP) or attributes (-1 to Wisdom or something, that's part of soul).

Just to let you know, I for one will never use it in that case.

 

But gems are cool. They actually become quite usefull for high-level parties.

I totally agree.

 

I concur.

 

Anything like permanent loss and you can be sure the spell will not get used. I say stick with gems. And I do mean gems, not just gold that might be equivalent to gems. Gold is far too easy to come by.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Anything like permanent loss and you can be sure the spell will not get used. I say stick with gems. And I do mean gems, not just gold that might be equivalent to gems. Gold is far too easy to come by.

Who said it to be permanent? 8-24 game hours might be good penalty... so until rest or travel that takes more, or just twiddling once thumbs so long that the game suffers a stroke and gives up. And the last thing, the restoration spell won't remove the penalty!

[Sorrow]

Just to let you know, I for one will never use it in that case.

Frankly, the Gate seems to be one of these spells that no one sane would use without a really, really good reason.

After all, how many times it is used in novels?

 

*Checks it out in the PHB*

AHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA !

It looks like the Gate cast by NPCs is another lame munchkin trick of Baldur's Gate.

According to the description:

-The summoned being may go away or punish the summoner if the business it was summoned for was too trivial.

-The summoned being will demand payment.

-Casting this spell makes the caster 5 years older.

[Salk]

Bargain with demon is a cool idea you know. But maybe instead of gems, you can give to them your blood (-5 to maximum HP) or attributes (-1 to Wisdom or something, that's part of soul).

Just to let you know, I for one will never use it in that case.

 

But gems are cool. They actually become quite usefull for high-level parties.

I totally agree.

 

Same here.

[Lollorian]

Bargain with demon is a cool idea you know. But maybe instead of gems, you can give to them your blood (-5 to maximum HP) or attributes (-1 to Wisdom or something, that's part of soul).

Just to let you know, I for one will never use it in that case.

 

But gems are cool. They actually become quite usefull for high-level parties.

I totally agree.

+1

 

-The summoned being may go away or punish the summoner if the business it was summoned for was too trivial.

Hmmm, so if no enemies are around, the summon goes hostile (like vanilla BGII behavior)

 

-The summoned being will demand payment.

GEMS FTW!!!

 

-Casting this spell makes the caster 5 years older.

Now Jarno's post makes perfect sense with this

 

Who said it (stat penalty) to be permanent? 8-24 game hours might be good penalty... so until rest or travel that takes more, or just twiddling once thumbs so long that the game suffers a stroke and gives up. And the last thing, the restoration spell won't remove the penalty!

That would be better than anything permanent

 

Cheers,

Lol

[Ardanis]

the total is 101%

Is 100%.

 

But maybe instead of gems, you can give to them your blood (-5 to maximum HP) or attributes (-1 to Wisdom or something, that's part of soul).

Both? Gems go for a regular payment, but for a unique bargain perma loss of an attribute is just a good as Aerie's bady, Malla's soul, etc. NWN2 had simialr thing two - you could trade expendable materials to get something equally non-special in return OR you could make a blind sacrifice and get a reasonably powerful item (not really, but at least worthy of being hold around).

 

Hmmm, so if no enemies are around, the summon goes hostile

Indeed.

[Sorrow]

But do these creatures value gems?

[Guest Guest_Lol]

It isn't whether they need gems, but which gems do they need??

 

Would the caster be able to choose what to give?? I don't wanna give away my only Nymph's Tear to some demon who's gonna be around for one fight (albeit a big one )

 

And what about enemy casters?? Would they 'bargain' (and sometimes fail ) with demons too?

 

Now that I think about it, yarpen's original idea of the alignment based summon, along with Jarno's random summon also sounds pwetty damn good ... although I can't imagine a "Good" summon begging for gemz

 

And maybe we could throw in the XP (normal small-ish values like 1000-5000 from the entire party), stat penalties (temporary), gold, jewelry (ok maybe not for inventory clutter) ALONG with the gems for extra random action.

 

In short, random summons, random bargains, and random effects That's Gate overhaulin' for ya.

 

This almost makes it like the Wish-type spells

 

Cheers,

Lol

[Icendoan]

Oh, I'm also against permanent loss for temporary gain. If it would be remembered, that would be OK, though.

 

How about something like costing 25% maximum HP loss for a couple of hours, when the spell is cast? It is a large deficit, but doesn't last. It is also a little more believable than using gems.

 

 

Icen