IA v6 Final

[yarpen]

All subspecies of dragons have 12 age categories, and gain more abilities and greater power as they age. Dragons range in size from several feet upon hatching to more than 100 feet, after they have attained the status of great wyrm. The exact size varies according to age and subspecies. A dragon's wingspan is about equal to its body length; 15-20% of a dragon's body length is neck.

 

And '12' category means more than 1200 years. ^^

[isleepwithfucking goats]

I always found the dragon fights in IA retarded. I mean dragons casting spells and turbo running towards you? Jeez

 

Dragons should be fucking slow since they are gianormous, should have a ton of HP, swing their wing, breathe fire/acid/cold/poison, but not cast any fucking spells.

 

Don't get me going on hybrid Dragon/Liches.

 

Then you have the numerous hack'n slash golems introduced, instead of buffing up Werewolves, Minotaurs, Umberhulks and other beasts, to make the RPG atmosphere more pleasant. This clearly shows how stubborn Sikret is. I mean you could probably beat the guy with a camel and he would still introduce more golems.

[Guest!]

Don't get me going on hybrid Dragon/Liches.

Dracoliches are an original D&D feature, actually - from the "Cult of the Dragon" sourcebook. I don't know how Sikret handled them, though.

[yarpen]

Dragons should be fucking slow since they are gianormous, should have a ton of HP, swing their wing, breathe fire/acid/cold/poison, but not cast any fucking spells.

That's exactly how dragons look in PnP. They've got powerfull breath attack, lots of HP, some special abilities (like Aura of Fear and Wing Buffet) and not too many of spells. As you can see Firkraag would have only 4th level wizard's spells and 2nd level cleric's so that's not much.

 

Dracoliches are an original D&D feature, actually - from the "Cult of the Dragon" sourcebook. I don't know how Sikret handled them, though.

... or Monstrous Manual for AD&D (I hate when people talk about Baldur's Gate 2 and 3rd editional Handbooks). Dracoliches should posses similiar to Liches spell immunities, more powerfull Aura of Fear and it's stated that they use a lot of spells but I don't have any details about their spell usage.

[isleepwithfucking goats]

Dragons should be fucking slow since they are gianormous, should have a ton of HP, swing their wing, breathe fire/acid/cold/poison, but not cast any fucking spells.

That's exactly how dragons look in PnP. They've got powerfull breath attack, lots of HP, some special abilities (like Aura of Fear and Wing Buffet) and not too many of spells. As you can see Firkraag would have only 4th level wizard's spells and 2nd level cleric's so that's not much.

 

Agree, definitely no turbo running, Spell Immunity, Spell Turning, Spell Shield, Stoneskins (WTF?), PFMW (Double Facepalm).

 

Magic resistance: sure, 99% if you want

Physical resistance: sure, 99% no problem

 

^ Both make sense imo, Dragon fights should be long and meele/ranged oriented. That doesn't mean dragon should be all by himself, he could have plenty of minions/support, no problem with that.

 

Words can not describe how I feel about dragons in IA.

 

[Guest!]

Dracoliches are an original D&D feature, actually - from the "Cult of the Dragon" sourcebook. I don't know how Sikret handled them, though.

... or Monstrous Manual for AD&D (I hate when people talk about Baldur's Gate 2 and 3rd editional Handbooks).

Cult of the Dragon is 2nd Edition stuff. Some 12 years before BG.

[Mohina]

A red dragon in IA has nothing whatsoever to do with the red dragon in the Monster Manual.

Funny thing. Firkraag in BG2 also has nothing to do with him. Well, I will just post stats of OLDEST Red Dragon considered by Monster Manual for AD&D.

 

Age: 12

AC: -11

Breath Weapon: 24d10+12

Wizard/Priest spells: 2 2 2 2 /2 1

Magic Resistance: 65%

XP Value: 24,000

 

And I'm not sure if Firkraag (even if he's old) deserves to be treated as the oldest dragon, because there are still dragons in ToB.

 

SPOILER!

 

IA 6 Firkraag has 26 levels, 90% magic resistance, 55% resistance to crushing, piercing and slashing, 80% resistance to missile and is immune to fire. Base AC of -11 and -3 THACO. He gives 64k xp, which is the same as in vanilla.

 

I'm not sure whether he's meant to be an Ancient Red in vanilla SoA. If so, he was severely underpowered in vanilla. Admittedly his AI is much better than in vanilla (in IA5 that is, haven't confronted him yet in IA 6). But the largest part of his difficulty is due to the resistances he gets. I'm not complaining about that: Firkraag in vanilla SoA was a joke. You shouldn't be able to kill a Red Dragon straight out of Chateau Irenicus.

 

However, compare these stats with the Ancient Dragon you meet in IA6:

 

Resistances: Acid, cold and electricity: 75%, Fire 100%, magic 100%, crushing, piercing and slashing 70%, missile, 100%.

 

Base AC: -18, THACO -18.

 

Again: it's not meant as criticism per se. But it does illustrate what Saros allready pointed out: a huge part of the difficulty of IA is due to the resistances/immunities opponents get.

[isleepwithfucking goats]

Resistances: Acid, cold and electricity: 75%, Fire 100%, magic 100%, crushing, piercing and slashing 70%, missile, 100%.

 

Base AC: -18, THACO -18.

 

I find these resistances perfectly fine, except the 100% missile.

Dragons should be tough creatures to kill (thinking very long fights here) and when they hit, well they should hit hard.

[Mohina]

Dragons should be fucking slow since they are gianormous, should have a ton of HP, swing their wing, breathe fire/acid/cold/poison, but not cast any fucking spells.

That's exactly how dragons look in PnP. They've got powerfull breath attack, lots of HP, some special abilities (like Aura of Fear and Wing Buffet) and not too many of spells. As you can see Firkraag would have only 4th level wizard's spells and 2nd level cleric's so that's not much.

 

Agree, definitely no turbo running, Spell Immunity, Spell Turning, Spell Shield, Stoneskins (WTF?), PFMW (Double Facepalm).

 

Magic resistance: sure, 99% if you want

Physical resistance: sure, 99% no problem

 

^ Both make sense imo, Dragon fights should be long and meele/ranged oriented. That doesn't mean dragon should be all by himself, he could have plenty of minions/support, no problem with that.

 

Words can not describe how I feel about dragons in IA.

 

 

Correct me if i'm wrong, but don't dragons have Stoneskin in vanilla? Agreed on the Spell shield, though. That's just silly.

[InKal]

Another case in point is enemy mages in IA v6. They're easily exploitable in at least one regard - if you have spell protections and they have some means to remove them, they WILL try to do so at the expense of using offensive spells on your warriors.

 

In my opinion this is intentional. It's part of the mod design, not a flaw.

 

Again: it's not meant as criticism per se. But it does illustrate what Saros allready pointed out: a huge part of the difficulty of IA is due to the resistances/immunities opponents get.

 

No, disagree. I hate this guy's marketing revelations but AI scripts in his "shitty" mod are exellent.

 

Moreover, for example "illegal resistances" vs "more staying power". Two ways/methods - same effect: creature is harder to kill. Everybody's bitching about "illegal resistances" nobody about "more staying power". Sort of unfair.

[the bigg]

Moreover, for example "illegal resistances" vs "more staying power". Two ways/methods - same effect: creature is harder to kill. Everybody's bitching about "illegal resistances" nobody about "more staying power". Sort of unfair.

If you're talking about SCSII's "More Staying Power", it's 1) optional 2) only for bosses like Dragons and Demons, not random Rats or Golems.

[Nominar]

Dragons in vanilla cast Stoneskin, Spellshield and other spells. I don't have a problem with dragons casting spells, why can't they be wizards too? Arcane magic in D&D (pre 4th ed anyway, 4th ed system is stupid) is just a combination of patterns, words, hand gestures etc. that anyone can study and use, to a varying effect. Also, dragons are magical creatures so it makes sense they have some innate magical abilities.

 

The idea of what dragons 'should' and 'shouldn't' do is silly to me; dragons aren't real creatures and so there's no such thing as what they should do in terms of realism, although I prefer some realism to be pursued. And in this case I think it's realistic that they cast arcane spells such as Stoneskin, PFMW, Haste etc.

[Guest!]

Dragons in vanilla cast Stoneskin, Spellshield and other spells. I don't have a problem with dragons casting spells, why can't they be wizards too? Arcane magic in D&D (pre 4th ed anyway, 4th ed system is stupid) is just a combination of patterns, words, hand gestures etc. that anyone can study and use, to a varying effect. Also, dragons are magical creatures so it makes sense they have some innate magical abilities.

 

The idea of what dragons 'should' and 'shouldn't' do is silly to me; dragons aren't real creatures and so there's no such thing as what they should do in terms of realism, although I prefer some realism to be pursued. And in this case I think it's realistic that they cast arcane spells such as Stoneskin, PFMW, Haste etc.

There is such a thing as realism as "adherence to the rules of the gameworld", which is BG2/AD&D. Dragons instacasting Time Stop aren't realistic, because in AD&D Dragons can't instacast Time Stop.

[Nominar]

Dragons in vanilla cast Stoneskin, Spellshield and other spells. I don't have a problem with dragons casting spells, why can't they be wizards too? Arcane magic in D&D (pre 4th ed anyway, 4th ed system is stupid) is just a combination of patterns, words, hand gestures etc. that anyone can study and use, to a varying effect. Also, dragons are magical creatures so it makes sense they have some innate magical abilities.

 

The idea of what dragons 'should' and 'shouldn't' do is silly to me; dragons aren't real creatures and so there's no such thing as what they should do in terms of realism, although I prefer some realism to be pursued. And in this case I think it's realistic that they cast arcane spells such as Stoneskin, PFMW, Haste etc.

There is such a thing as realism as "adherence to the rules of the gameworld", which is BG2/AD&D. Dragons instacasting Time Stop aren't realistic, because in AD&D Dragons can't instacast Time Stop.

House rules. Any DM can apply them if they can provide a reason, and I'm sure many in-game reasons can be made up. I don't remember insta cast Time Stops from dragons though.

[yarpen]

Still, Baldur's Gate 2 is game based on some rules of Advanced Dungeons and Dragons which clearly states some stuff. You might want game to be close to those as possible (as me for example, in limited way) or just want to have fun with dragons who cast Time Stop. What about dragon's spellcasting:

 

Dragons learn spells haphazardly over the years. The DM should randomly determine which spells any particular dragon knows. The dragon can cast each spell once per day, unless random determination indicates the same spell more than once, in which case the dragon can cast it more than once a day. Dragons to not use spell books or pray to deities; they simply sleep, concentrate when they awaken, and remember their spells. Dragon spells have only a verbal component; the spells have a casting time of 1, regardless of level. Dragons cannot physically attack, use their breath weapon, use their magical abilities, or fly (except to glide) while casting a spell.