Random ramblings, bugs, and tweaks

[kreso]

I made this list about 10 days ago, but never posted it. It includes bugs, items in need of tweaking, those too powerful, too weak, or just crappy. Chip in with comments, I'll post mine suggestions in italics, and bugs I found will be underlined.

 

AMUL16 - Amulet of Metaspell Influence

needs immunity to display string "silence"

 

AMUL17 - Greenstone amulet

missing Stun immunity, immunity to display string "stun", "stunned", immunity to portrait icon "stun"

This I find way too good to pass on out. I'd rework it - Immunity to Charm, Stun, and all psionic attacks (detonate, ballistic attack etc.)

 

AX1H14 - Axe of Unyielding +3

Remove AC bonus, buff regen to a regular 1/6 sec

 

AX1H15 - Axe of Unyielding +4

vorpal is actually 5% at -4 save.

Remove AC, regen to 1/6, 10% vorpal at -2 seems ok

 

BLUN12 - Mace of Disruption +3

display string "undead destroyed" has a save vs death roll, should be spells

Disruption isn't on all hits, but has a %based probability, i.e. 20%

 

BLUN25 - Mod +4 - "undead destroyed" has save vs death roll

%-based disruption, 40%, level-drain immunity, enchantement to +3 (to avoid instakill of Demiliches)

 

BRAC08 - Gauntlets of parrying - +1 to melee AC

Kind of crappy, considering almost all other gauntlets are better. I'd vote +2 AC vs melee

 

BRAC23 - Blessed Bracers, upgraded

Righteous magic should target caster

 

CHAN11 - Crimson Chain

Blood Rage ability should be reworked (no berserk)

 

CLCK04 - Cloak of the Wolf

I'd remove regeneration from here, and add vampiric ability to wearer melee strikes.

 

CLCK26 - Cloak of Mirroring

Change the trigger into "each round when attacked".

 

CLCK32 - Montolio's cloak ,

should include immunity to portrait icon "blind" and immunity to display string "blinded"and SPWI106.spl

 

DWCHAN02, DWPLAT01 - physical resistance is being applied twice

 

HALB06 - Blackmist -

should include immunity to portrait icon "blind" and immunity to display string "blinded"and SPWI106.spl

 

HALB09 - Wave halberd - on EE wrong projectile is used

I'd tone down save penalty to -2 for it's instakill effect.

 

HALB11 - Ravager +5

Aura of Fear - made into a permanent "cloak of fear" effect

 

HAMM09 - Crom Fayer

I'd remove throwing apr penalty. It's not worth the effort to forge this weapon.

 

HELM05 - Watcher's helm -

should include immunity to portrait icon "blind" and immunity to display string "blinded" and SPWI106.spl

 

HELM18 - Pearly White Ioun Stone - regen is wrong. It's 1/20 sec.

I'd buff regen to standard 1/6, and add a slight (-10) penalty to fire and acid

 

HELM21 - Dragon Helm

should inlude "prevent portrait icon - unconscius"

 

HELM32 - Horned Helm of the Rock

It has immunity to Stun and Sleep, it probably shouldn't

I'd make it's "cast spell" aura-like effect

 

LEAT06 - Cursed Missile Attraction

there's no DVMSLATR.eff, so no anti-missile aura on this armor

 

NPMISC1 - Jan's Spectroscopes

undocumented immunity to Blindness

 

NPSTAF - Cernd's staff

elemental resist is 15, even if description states it's 10

 

PLAT12 - Doomplate

DVDOOMPL.eff doesn't exist, making this arguably the worst armor in the game

 

SAHBOLT - Sahaugin bolt

stun lasts 6 rounds, while description says 5.

Stun duration is way too long. 2 rounds?

 

SHLD20 - Kiel's buckler

should include "immunity to display string "held", "stun", "stunned"

 

SHLD27 - Saving Grace

232 opcode target should be "nearest enemy", "last hit by" needs succesfull hit

 

STAF09 - Staff of Command

DVMINDBR.spl doesn't exist

STAF14 - Staff of Woodlands

animals must save with no penalty, even if other effects are at -4; other effects (animation)

trigger on non-animals as well

Remove the useless ability, there are no more animals after you get this. Only Drow "disguised" as deer.

 

SW1H27 - Arbane's sword

immunity to portrait icons "grease" and "entangle", immunity to Golem Slow spell and SPWI312

 

SW1H62 - Foebane +4

This is too easy to obtain, SCS messes up with statues there and makes them "human";

thus very vulnerable to disables. It doesn't matter if WK, this is simply too early to be

+4. I'd make it +3, and it's +5 variant into +4. It would still be one of the best in-game

weapons...

 

SW2H15 - Silver Sword

chance for vorpal is 10% (should be 15), save is made at -4 (should be -2)

I'd tone down this sword to a +3 status. It's very powerful, even more with "revised Criticals"

 

SW2H21 - Psion's blade

I'd rework this. Same as Greenstone, Immunities to things flayers use: Charm, Stun, and psionic attacks.

 

Now, I'd also rework items which provide Free Action. Imo (and even SCS doesn't work this way, it only checks Chaotic Commands/Items for Stun targets, not those under FA), Free Action should not provide Stun immunity.

This tweak would make items a la Greenstone/Psion's still very valuable, but not broken as now.

[Salk]

AX1H15 - Axe of Unyielding +4

vorpal is actually 5% at -4 save.

Remove AC, regen to 1/6, 10% vorpal at -2 seems ok

I'd rather keep the vanilla 10% at -4 rather than the 5% at -6 as per item description. The proposed nerf is too much.

 

BLUN12 - Mace of Disruption +3

display string "undead destroyed" has a save vs death roll, should be spells

Disruption isn't on all hits, but has a %based probability, i.e. 20%

I don't agree. I'd keep it on all hits. IR already removes the -4 penalty. It's more than enough.

 

BLUN25 - Mod +4 - "undead destroyed" has save vs death roll

%-based disruption, 40%, level-drain immunity, enchantement to +3 (to avoid instakill of Demiliches)

I don't agree with this suggestion either, of course. The game is not a WWF campaign to save dragons, demiliches or beholder from being annihilated by the evil players. Again, removing the -4 penalty is enough to grant demiliches a reasonable chance of survival.

 

HALB09 - Wave halberd - on EE wrong projectile is used

I'd tone down save penalty to -2 for it's instakill effect.

I see how the instakill effect is your nightmare, kreso. But it happened to me when I played that I got instakilled by powerful enemies. It feels only fair that powerful players using legendary weapons can pull it off too. And it only applies to a very specific group of enemies. Against this change too.

 

HELM18 - Pearly White Ioun Stone - regen is wrong. It's 1/20 sec.

I'd buff regen to standard 1/6, and add a slight (-10) penalty to fire and acid

I don't see why we should change from the original. Just fix the bug.

 

SAHBOLT - Sahaugin bolt

stun lasts 6 rounds, while description says 5.

Stun duration is way too long. 2 rounds?

I think duration set to 4 might be reasonable.

 

SW1H62 - Foebane +4

This is too easy to obtain, SCS messes up with statues there and makes them "human";

thus very vulnerable to disables. It doesn't matter if WK, this is simply too early to be

+4. I'd make it +3, and it's +5 variant into +4. It would still be one of the best in-game

weapons...

I don't really agree here. For starters, I don't think it's so easy to obtain for two reasons: (1) if you play without SCS (IR must consider that not everyone installing this mod is going to be power players) then the statues are not going to be vulnerable to disables (2) if you play with SCS then chances are you are doing it to make the general fights more challenging so the sudden advantage in one specific combat situation won't really turn the general flow of the game. WK, from what I remember, is a very tough area and finding a very powerful weapon there seems to be consistent with the level of challenge.

 

SW2H15 - Silver Sword

chance for vorpal is 10% (should be 15), save is made at -4 (should be -2)

I'd tone down this sword to a +3 status. It's very powerful, even more with "revised Criticals"

Again, I can't really buy the "if the game is played with X component from Y mod then this item is overpowered". I think we had an ongoing discussion about this... I'd make the vorpal effect consistent through the game so I propose 10% and -4 here as well, keeping the +4 status. IR also cuts the usability for all LG characters.

I am good with the rest of the suggestions.

[Demivrgvs]

I'll work on the new IR beta today and most of this stuff has already been handled.

 

Quick note: we discussed the Vorpal effect for ages yes, and we decided that making it more consistent was the way to go. A higher % and less harsh save means the effect triggers much more often against "common targets" without being overpowering (the save penalty should make it hard to resist for lesser foes, but not impossible to resist for powerful ones), and at the same time it reduces the chance of that super lucky one shot kill on supposedly god-like foes like dragons (though it can still happen). Thus a 1handed vorpal weapon gets a 10% chance with -2 penalty, 2handed is a 15% chance. One thing I'm considering is to add a good amount of slashing dmg on a successful save (mostly inspired by the work on SR regarding "save or die" spells but I think 5th edition is going in a similar direction).

 

I'll post more stuff when I manage to find some time for it.

[Salk]

Thus a 1handed vorpal weapon gets a 10% chance with -2 penalty, 2handed is a 15% chance. One thing I'm considering is to add a good amount of slashing dmg on a successful save (mostly inspired by the work on SR regarding "save or die" spells but I think 5th edition is going in a similar direction).

 

I'll post more stuff when I manage to find some time for it.

 

By what kind of logic should a two-handed weapon have bigger chance of triggering the vorpal effect? There is no causality in my opinion.

 

Also the -2 is too lenient a save. The vanilla vorpal effect saved at -6 (!). A -2 is an enormous reduction and will make the vorpal effect become just a gimmick that is effective against those foes that don't put much of a challenge to begin with.

[Demivrgvs]

Thus a 1handed vorpal weapon gets a 10% chance with -2 penalty, 2handed is a 15% chance. One thing I'm considering is to add a good amount of slashing dmg on a successful save (mostly inspired by the work on SR regarding "save or die" spells but I think 5th edition is going in a similar direction).

 

I'll post more stuff when I manage to find some time for it.

 

- By what kind of logic should a two-handed weapon have bigger chance of triggering the vorpal effect? There is no causality in my opinion.

 

- Also the -2 is too lenient a save. The vanilla vorpal effect saved at -6 (!). A -2 is an enormous reduction and will make the vorpal effect become just a gimmick that is effective against those foes that don't put much of a challenge to begin with.

 

- the "1.5x multiplier" for 2 handed weapons is applied to pretty much everything within IR (e.g. a Flaming 1handed weapon deals +1d4 dmg, a 2 handed one would get +1d6). It's a balancing factor to keep 2handed weapons appealing.

 

- vanilla Vorpal effect actually had -2 penalty on the Silver Sword. I think the Axe of the Unyelding had -4 or -6, while the Ravager had no save at all. I need feedback from actual play-testing to determine if -2 is "too lenient". Considering how many tools the player has (even more thanks to Revisions mod) there are a lot of variables to keep into account. For example spells like Doom and Malison, or a Dooming IR weapon can easily prepare the target to be extremely vulnerable to a vorpal hit.

[kreso]

I see how the instakill effect is your nightmare, kreso. But it happened to me when I played that I got instakilled by powerful enemies. It feels only fair that powerful players using legendary weapons can pull it off too. And it only applies to a very specific group of enemies. Against this change too.

The problem is "very specific group of enemies". Instagib on Imix, who is in fact an Archomental, and burns whatever comes near him, isn't my idea of roleplaying, nor does it feel satisfying. I'm ok with him taking extra damage from it (as he should), but not instakill.

Fire Giants - should a player make Fire Giants temple a farming ground for EXP? This is ToB, not Nalia's keep. I don't mind Wave raping lesser elementals (it's immunity to ADHW is already a huge buff from vanilla weapon), but slicing giants is imo too much.

Likewise, MoD (as it is now) instakills vampires on 40% of hits. In addition to it's upgraded version providing level drain immunity. So, do tell, what will vamps do against a single character wearing Charm protection helmet + MoD? Sorry, but this isn't fun in my eyes.

Vorpals are, even if you remove the penalty completely, the best game weapons against mages, whose save vs death is pathetic even at high levels, and kill them through stoneskins. -2 makes them good against mobs as well.

 

 

 

SAHBOLT - Sahaugin bolt

I think duration set to 4 might be reasonable.

4 rounds stun is enough to kill anything vulnerable to it. Imo (but this is highly subjective) stuns shouldn't last long. The problem with this effect is that it mimics Held condition, and it shouldn't.

 

 

 

 

SW1H62 - Foebane +4

I don't really agree here. For starters, I don't think it's so easy to obtain for two reasons: (1) if you play without SCS (IR must consider that not everyone installing this mod is going to be power players) then the statues are not going to be vulnerable to disables (2) if you play with SCS then chances are you are doing it to make the general fights more challenging so the sudden advantage in one specific combat situation won't really turn the general flow of the game.

Even w/o SCS, they're very vulnerable. Web? You only need to fight two of them to get the sword.

 

 

. WK, from what I remember, is a very tough area and finding a very powerful weapon there seems to be consistent with the level of challenge.

Here I disagree completely. Just because an area is tough (I don't think it is, but that's relative) getting a super-duper weapon which can hit anything in the game there isn't needed. Demon battles in level 3 of WK are much harder (with and w/o SCS) and you get basically no items there. What I'm proposing isn't all that big of a nerf. +3 enchantement is all you need for 99,99% of oponnents. It will prohibit hitting Kangaxx, WK Demilich, Demogorgon and Mellisan.

More imortantly, I do firmly believe that the number of "epic-level" stuff is too damn high. Sure, I want my fighters with extra equipment. But not a +4 vampiric weapon at level 9.

[Salk]

Valid points all around, kreso and Demi.

 

There are only a few things I object to:

 

- the "1.5x multiplier" for 2 handed weapons is applied to pretty much everything within IR (e.g. a Flaming 1handed weapon deals +1d4 dmg, a 2 handed one would get +1d6). It's a balancing factor to keep 2handed weapons appealing.

 

The damage increase is sensible. The weapon is bigger and heavier. The chance of inflicting more damage is consistent with size. But the vorpal effect has nothing to do with it whatsoever. It's like saying, for example, that a two handed sword should have Improved Haste as one time effect instead of Haste only because it's a two-handed weapon.

 

 

 

Likewise, MoD (as it is now) instakills vampires on 40% of hits. In addition to it's upgraded version providing level drain immunity. So, do tell, what will vamps do against a single character wearing Charm protection helmet + MoD? Sorry, but this isn't fun in my eyes.

 

Here I have two problems. The first (and usual) is that you bring in a situation where I have to consider as valid parameter for measuring the effectiveness of a weapon a character that is wearing a Charm protection helmet and wielding the MoD at the same time. I am perfectly aware that it is possible to plan every single encounter in advance, buffing your characters, changing equipment according to what kind of enemy we are going to face, exploiting all the possible weaknesses and lay out a strategy that optimizes the chances of success. But... is this fun in your eyes?

 

The second problem is: the upgraded version's level drain immunity was introduced by IR, if I am not mistaken. I like the idea but not if it comes with that kind of price. Mace of Disruption should disrupt (the vanilla save is at -4)!

 

What I'm proposing isn't all that big of a nerf. +3 enchantement is all you need for 99,99% of oponnents. It will prohibit hitting Kangaxx, WK Demilich, Demogorgon and Mellisan.

 

Those are exactly the enemies you want powerful weapons to fight against. Because they are very powerful opponents. What's the use of a weapon that is overkill with most enemies but is ineffective against those that require epic equipment to fight back fair and square? That is not my idea of fun...

[Dakk]

I agree with 2-handed 1,5x effect, but we established that consensus aaages ago :-) And as Demi says, I recall we decided to up the probability but lower the save malus, with the intended effect that it should trigger more often (entertainment!) for slicing and dicing mooks, but let bosses be more resilient.

 

Vorpal, it goes through stone-skin?

 

Agree with lowering stun duration.

 

Very much against lowering enchantment on Foebane. I'd rather move it than nerf it (even though I prefer status quo).

[Dakk]

Sorry for double post, but editing is chore on tablet.

 

@yarpen

The conceptual justification is that a greater weapon can have a greater enchantment. It's the magic that's amplified by the inherent power of the weapon. I'd say it's pretty congruous with lore. (With a bazillion exceptions and counterpoints, I'm sure)

 

It also seems to be in line with original dev intent, there's no +5 vorpal daggers.

[kreso]

 

Those are exactly the enemies you want powerful weapons to fight against. Because they are very powerful opponents. What's the use of a weapon that is overkill with most enemies but is ineffective against those that require epic equipment to fight back fair and square? That is not my idea of fun...

Foebane is very, very powerful. In fact, it's so powerful in IR that even if made +2 it would still probably be the best 1-h sword in the game for "generic fighting":

 

extra saves - check

big damage dice - check

drains hp and heals you -check

extra damage vs outsiders - check

upgradable to be even better - check

And +4 enchanted? Am I the only one who thinks this is absurd OP?

 

It would be ineffective against Kangaxx in SoA (within IR, you can one-shot him with Vorpal Sword since it's +4....now how that would look in a Hollywood movie I don't even want to imagine.... ), and come ToB, you could upgrade it to +4, so it could hit anything. There are plenty of "epic" oponnents against which even a non-enchanted sword is enough (Firkraag). This tweak (from +4 to +3) would not affect the game in almost any way apart the fact that wouldn't be a +4 weapon available on a crap statue. How did Foebane get there from Myth Drannor anyway is way beyond my comprehension.

Hence, I think that toning down both Foebane and Vorpal is a good thing. Like you, I don't think IR should depend on what SCS does to creatures's immunites, and rest assured, Demiliches can be vorpalized with a +4 Vorpal weapon (even with SCS), and due to save vs death, are very likely to fail.

That___ is___ crazy. It's a freakin' skull.

[Demivrgvs]

Demiliches can be vorpalized with a +4 Vorpal weapon (even with SCS), and due to save vs death, are very likely to fail.

That___ is___ crazy. It's a freakin' skull.

I just added demilich to the list of creatures immune to IR's vorpal effect (together with elementals, incorporeal or illusionary creatures, golems and mordy). Very easy.

[kreso]

Charm protection helmet and wielding the MoD at the same time. I am perfectly aware that it is possible to plan every single encounter in advance, buffing your characters, changing equipment according to what kind of enemy we are going to face, exploiting all the possible weaknesses and lay out a strategy that optimizes the chances of success. But... is this fun in your eyes?

 

 

No, that's why I use mods. But it is fairly logical to fight vamps with Charm resistance and MoD.

 

 

The second problem is: the upgraded version's level drain immunity was introduced by IR, if I am not mistaken. I like the idea but not if it comes with that kind of price. Mace of Disruption should disrupt (the vanilla save is at -4)!

Level drain immunity is there in vanilla, as well as a +5 actual enchantement (even if desc.says +2).

I agree, MoD should disrupt. I'm not suggesting to drop this effect, just tone it down.

Azuredge otoh shouldn't, since only blunt weapons can have this feat, at least in DnD.

 

 

I just added demilich to the list of creatures immune to IR's vorpal effect (together with elementals, incorporeal or illusionary creatures, golems and mordy). Very easy.

Case closed. I'd still make it a +3.

[Salk]

Okay guys... You do what you think is best!

[Sergio]

+3 seems to be "useless". I agree for +4. I like weapons that are useful during all the game. But your guess.

[n-ghost]

SAHBOLT - Sahaugin bolt

stun lasts 6 rounds, while description says 5.

Stun duration is way too long. 2 rounds?

 

Those bolts are made of cheese. And spiced with tears of all the honest players worldwide.

 

I vote for changing Hold effect to Sleep (that breaks when creature takes further damage). It even makes more sense lorewise, since those evil shark-men probably would want to incapacitate people they kidnap to sacrifice to their shark gods rather than merely stun them.

 

And it's still cheesy enough to interrupt spellcasts and such.

 

Also it will prevent a lone crossbowman character who loots an Adamantite Crossbow +1000000 at the first drow he ever encounters from conquering all of the Underdark single-handedly (elven racial immunity to sleep, duh).