BG1 equippable items: what we need...

[subtledoctor]

Sorry, but craftmanship is in FR classified as magic, not don't be disenhancted by the notion of what this says. movement ).

 

Yes, a +1 sword is not a result of a magician casting spells on an normal sword, but more of the smiths work with his skill, material and so on.

Whaaaat? No.

 

Jarno you have an odd predisposition of telling people how the games work in your personal headcanon, as if you were teaching is something true about the world, instead of just how you picture it.

 

I think the game is actually pretty clear that there are items that are crafted by master in their field (eg yeti hide by Conlan, ankheg plate by Taerim Fuirom or whatever his name is) and then otber items that are enchanted by magic (your average chain mail +2, or whatever). You can use rings of protection with the former, but not the latter, so the rules perfectly support this distinction between "well-crafted" and "enchanted."

[Jarno Mikkola]

Jarno you have an odd predisposition of telling people how the games work in your personal headcanon, as if you were teaching is something true about the world, instead of just how you picture it.

 

I think the game is actually pretty clear that there are items that are crafted by master in their field ...ankheg plate by Taerim Fuirom or whatever his name is) and then otber items that are enchanted by magic (your average chain mail +2, or whatever). You can use rings of protection with the former, but not the latter, so the rules perfectly support this distinction between "well-crafted" and "enchanted."

I don't know about you, but if you play the unmodified BG2 game, you cannot wear a +1 protection items and the ankheg plate at the same time with the same character. Because they are both in the itemexcl.2da files list. So, yes the game is clear, they are both magically enchanted.

But unlike you, even while I know I am delusional, I know this as the fact and accept it as the truth.

[Fiann of the Silver Hand]

your personal headcanon

I need this phrase.

[Salk]

so the rules perfectly support this distinction between "well-crafted" and "enchanted."

 

 

I'd be content with more belts and boots that are "well crafted" to equip my party members with.

[cipher]

The distinction between "well-crafted" and "enchanted" is meaningless from a practical perspective and the attempt to "define" them (for any other reason other than fluff) is borderline silly. In the end it comes down to how big is the bonus they provide to the user.

 

My view on the matter is that the slot in the paper doll represent all the items the character is wearing that they are worth mentioning. For example I don't assume that since there is not an underwear slot, everyone in the party is going commando. Similarly I don't assume that not seeing boots on screen means the character is barefoot.

 

So I don't think is necessary to have every slot filled and I'm of mind that IR shouldn't introduce new items.

[subtledoctor]

Fluff matters quite a bit in RPGs.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Fluff matters quite a bit in RPGs.

But that shouldn't come to be the most defining fact of what's available in the game... defining the game enviroment as "BG1 can't end with 16x6 'magic' items to use at the same time, even if have done every freaking quest and gotten all the loot, even if half of the 'magic' stuff has no permanent enhancing effects during combats, no that can't happen. But it's fine if all the stuff the party has is 'fine' but everything has effect in combat." -is what's called, bull dung.

[subtledoctor]

Who said "can't?"

 

I just said "Demi & Mike & Ardanis don't need to be the people who make that happen, unless they want to be."

[Ardanis]

While I in no way mean to interfere with your debate, guys, I can't help but notice a certain controversy in these two posts

you have an odd predisposition of telling people how the games work in your personal headcanon, as if you were teaching is something true about the world, instead of just how you picture it.

If there are 3 belts and 6 party members, they all have belt slots so that you can give the belt to whoever can benefit from it. They don't all need to be filled.

 

 

On that note, I agree with Salk - the lack of boots and belts to equip all party members has always been a big downer for me. That's just a poor game design.

[subtledoctor]

I don't see any contradiction there. I can see a game that gives you one single magical shield (or sword, or belt, or boots, whatever) between all six of your party members. So only one person gets the benefit of that item in whatever dramatic encounter the game throws you into... but all of your party members will have *slots* to carry that shield/sword/belt/boots, so that you can *choose* who should wield it.

 

BG is not that game, but I can certainly see a game doing that, and doing it well, and I don't think that would *necessarily* be bad game design. (It could also be done poorly, and then it would be bad game design - see, e.g. Balduran's Island and Karoug.) And I can certainly see a DM (i.e., in this case, a player applying mods to his game to set some house rules for the next playthrough) wanting to set up a lower-magic variant of the setting for more fun/challenge/interest. Not for nothing IR and SCS and my own SoB all have popular components that substantially reduce the number of "magic" weapons in the game by making a whole subset of them into "masterwork" versions.

 

I M H O (Yes there's that phrase again. Am I the only person who can acknowledge that all of this boils down to one's own opinion, preferences and taste?)

[Ardanis]

Okay, I think I see it then. My understanding is that the "pro" party wants *any* kind of boots and belts, as long as they provide some kind of a bonus. They don't have to be heavily enchanted, even +1 bonus to one saving throw out of five will do - as long as there's difference between having an item on or not. Masterwork doesn't differ from magical in that regard, it's just weaker than an full +1 item. I certainly wouldn't want +5 boots in BG1 either, this is straight imbalanced.

 

As for empty slots, it only happens with boots and belts, but not any other item type. It would be perfectly reasonable if there were equal shortage of rings, cloaks, amulets etc. as well, but with all those fully supplied the boots/belt slots stand out as odd in comparison.

 

I M H O (Yes there's that phrase again. Am I the only person who can acknowledge that all of this boils down to one's own opinion, preferences and taste?)

 

Nope, you're not

[subtledoctor]

 

Like I say, I would not argue at all against you guys adding more items if that's what you feel like doing. I just differ on whether it's absolutely necessary. But if you do, I'm sure they'll be great and I'll enjoy them.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Am I the only person who ...?

Clearly not.

But in the above example, you being wrong and me being right about the enhancements, there's no need for my honest opinion, when I can just mock your points of remark... ... it was for fun for me, but it was meant for you to memorize that indeed, the item in question is actually enhanced, not just finely made from a excellent material, it is that, but in the game world canon, not just my own. Which was actually one point of contention. But let's move on from that point.

 

We all write things in a different ways in different times, we are forgetful and so on, and well... my post are just based on my honest opinions or memories, or The Imps. It being the screwball hackmaster it is, remembering everything.

[wolpak]

I'd love to see an unlimited amount of unenchanted items for sale. There are 100 helmets that while they protect from crits aren't enchanted. Give me a belt for aesthetics. Not saying it should be in this mod, though as an optional component it would fit fine. Just that even useless slot fillers give a sense of completeness.

[Jarno Mikkola]

I'd love to see an unlimited amount of unenchanted items for sale. There are 100 helmets that while they protect from crits aren't enchanted. Give me a belt for aesthetics. Not saying it should be in this mod, though as an optional component it would fit fine. Just that even useless slot fillers give a sense of completeness.

Still, you are not offering what function the unenchanted belt would provide to the player ?

DEFINE what the unenhanted belt does, and we can look into it ! And while you are at it, tell us what does the unenchanted: gauntlet, gloves, boots, robes, cloaks do too ?

 

Yes, we could have 'technically unenchanted' Lockpickers Belts, that gives a +5 to the skill, but that's not technically unenhancted as the item space itself doesn't give the bonus, unlike in your example of the helm, where it actually does, unless you install the IR with the option that removes the Critical Hit damage reduction(to give it to very few other items). And if the item has the bonus, it can be seen as Enhancted item.