[help needed] Link to a program that could be used for "launcher menu" creation (or help with coding launcher)

[K4thos]

Why the launcher is planned for EET?

1. New "check for updates" feature - the launcher will check if there are any patches released for EET and ask player if his/her ongoing game (including saves) should be updated. The server connection code, downloading and extracting etc. is already done for WoBG polish project so I think there won't be a problem for us to borrow the code from it. The patch itself will be normal weidu code.
2. New "update saves" feature for those who re-installed the game but would like to continue playing with old saves. Enough with silly situations when just because the EE game TLK file or some mod became updated your ongoing saves becomes useless due to incorrect TLK entries.

3. View readme file.

4. Easy way to switch between BG2:EE and SoD GUI - EET now supports both, it would be a waste to not implement it considering all the required files are available withing BG:EE that we use during BG1 resources importation. Here are some screens from SoD one:
http://i.imgur.com/YWPcXOO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xc0PYSQ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0Wnob66.jpg

If IWD:EE will be ever updated to support patch 2.0 than IWD gui will be selectable too after installing IWD-in-EET mod.

 

So in order to present it as a nice menu rather than awkward weidu DOS like prompts we need to prepare a launcher like executable. Something like in the vanilla BG2 but maybe not so busy in design if creating context menu would be easier. I'm not aware about any programs that could be used for this purpose for both Windows and MAC OSX. Any ideas? Or maybe someone would be interested in writing such menu from scratch? All the menu should do is running console/terminal code after clicking on a button (so it can access weidu if needed).

Thanks in advance.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Launcher... erhm how many mods will you be supporting with it, cause if it's not all, WHY have it at all ?

Just make a request in BWS and you'll have your update support.. sorta of.

 

Looking at the pictures... that's not a launcher program, that's just a Graphical User Interface editing. Similar like in this thread. The tool to help, Near Infinity+weidu.exe just like it was done in the days or yore, aka BGT++.

[K4thos]

Launcher... erhm how many mods will you be supporting with it, cause if it's not all, WHY have it at all ?

not sure what other mods have to do with it.

 

Looking at the pictures... that's not a launcher program, that's just a Graphical User Interface editing.

how the GUI looks is not related to the launcher. I just never mentioned that SoD GUI is supported by EET so just posted some screenshots in this topic how it looks like in game.

 

Just make a request in BWS and you'll have your update support.. sorta of.

I think it must be language barrier on my part. Not sure how I should describe it properly. Just go to vanilla BG2 (not EE) directory and open "baldur.exe" launcher. That's the thing I'd like to implement just with options mentioned in the first post. Nothing related to BWS.

[smeagolheart]

Maybe a java launcher might be a good idea due to cross platform capability? I'm not a java programmer but they are not rare...

 

Possibly python but I believe you need something installed at least on windows to get it to run (not that you don't need java installed on mac or Pc but they are near universally adopted).

 

 

[Ulb]

Do you plan on implementing this as an optional feature or a core part of EET?

 

Personally I would not really care for such a launcher.

The update save-game function might be handy but for me an update is only really relevant once I'm setting up a new installation with BWS. Unless I'm mistaken EET will still be a rather early "mod" on the list, maybe not now but once more mods add support for it. So, updating EET will be more or less synonyms with re-installing the whole mega mod, which is usually handled by BWS anyway.

[Roxanne]

Do you plan on implementing this as an optional feature or a core part of EET?

 

Personally I would not really care for such a launcher.

The update save-game function might be handy but for me an update is only really relevant once I'm setting up a new installation with BWS. Unless I'm mistaken EET will still be a rather early "mod" on the list, maybe not now but once more mods add support for it. So, updating EET will be more or less synonyms with re-installing the whole mega mod, which is usually handled by BWS anyway.

We have to assume that even with all the testing done prior release neither EET nor the mods converted to it will be 100% perfect from day one. On the other hand, a game you once started and provided you have a number of large mods + SoD + IDW will take you a VERY long time to finish at least once. So the situation that a number of things get updated when you have spend months playing and have still months of the game ahead of you is quite realistic. And those updates may very well impact the gameplay that is still ahead of you.At least for some time in the initial phase of EET such a tool/capability sounds like a great idea. Any kind of GUI would do if we could only get the functionality.

[Ulb]

I want to expand a little on my earlier post but first let me say that I don't mean to offend you. You know I'm a huge fan of the EET and I can't wait to get my hands on it. It is just that, to me, this feature looks like something you would add not because it is a natural fit for EET but “because you can”.

 

Let's take a closer look at the advantages such a launcher would offer:

 

1. Updates for the EET.

 

The question is; why would I ever want to use the EET launcher to update the EET independently instead of using the BWS to update ALL my mods?

 

I think it is fair to assume that in a year from now, with a reasonable amount of EET supporting mods (of which the bigger part will probably be BG2 mods) updating the EET with WeiDU will take something like 80% of the time it would take to just do a new BWS installation.

 

So why would I EVER want to NOT spend a meager 25% more time to update ALL my other mods at the same time. Looks to me like the BWS is just far superior in that regard.

 

In addition to that, there might actually be cases where I will HAVE to update my other mods in order to ensure continued compatibility with the updated EET.

 

2. Using the “Update saves” feature.

 

While this looks like a useful tool, I have to ask again; how often do people really want to update their mods during a play-through? I would assume that to be only the case if there are major game-breaking bugs that NEED fixing. In that case the save updater will be a godsend but still, if it's not something people do on a regular basis I'm not sure you need an extra launcher for that. I think people will be content with running that tool from a separate exe.

 

3. Readme access.

Again, I doubt there are too many people eager to re-read the readme file 5 times a week. Navigating to the EET folder and opening the readme file from there should be fine.

 

4. Switching GUI layouts.

 

This looks like it might be the feature with the most “launcher synergy”. The question is; will this feature support other GUI mods (I'm sure there will be EET GUI mods or EET compatible forks of other GUI mods) and will people really use this feature to an extent that justifies a launcher (as opposed to just picking their desired GUI mod and sticking with that).

 

Overall I just don't see the point of adding a launcher for those features.

 

So the situation that a number of things get updated when you have spend months playing and have still months of the game ahead of you is quite realistic

 

 

But in that case, how much use is the launcher really? I would still have to update a dozen or so other mods by hand (or via BWS) anyway. Having a launcher so I have to click on one less WeiDU exe still seems pointless to me.

[smeagolheart]

I agree with Ulb.

 

If EET needs updating, then probably so do many other mods which is a big task that is what BWS tackles, might as well leave that to BWS to handle. If you are planning on patching EET that often maybe just wait and do several at one as "service pack" type bug releases between big releases. You could offer your update saves as part of an install with a group of patches (service pack).

 

Update saves sounds like it would be a useful tool to create separately of EET. It sounds useful as a general weidu thing rather than particular to EET.

 

Switching GUI layouts could be one weidu option with 3 choices...

 

Ultimately, it's your call of course, just my 2c.

[K4thos]

I want to expand a little on my earlier post but first let me say that I don't mean to offend you. You know I'm a huge fan of the EET and I can't wait to get my hands on it. It is just that, to me, this feature looks like something you would add not because it is a natural fit for EET but “because you can”.

hey, we are open to all kind of feedback. Especially criticism since that's the best way to improve the mod. No one is offended by feedback posts here

 

The question is; why would I ever want to use the EET launcher to update the EET independently instead of using the BWS to update ALL my mods?

 

I think it is fair to assume that in a year from now, with a reasonable amount of EET supporting mods (of which the bigger part will probably be BG2 mods) updating the EET with WeiDU will take something like 80% of the time it would take to just do a new BWS installation.

- few hours of mod installation to re-install everything

- or less than a minute to update the game including save games if needed

Although I agree that it's not a crucial feature.

 

In addition to that, there might actually be cases where I will HAVE to update my other mods in order to ensure continued compatibility with the updated EET.

I'm not expecting any changes to the way EET works from now on (referring to version 1.0 of course). This feature is meant to be used more as a hot fixes installation if needed for those who don't follow the messageboard, so conflicts with mods and future EET versions are unlikely.

 

2. Using the “Update saves” feature.

 

While this looks like a useful tool, I have to ask again; how often do people really want to update their mods during a play-through? I would assume that to be only the case if there are major game-breaking bugs that NEED fixing. In that case the save updater will be a godsend but still, if it's not something people do on a regular basis I'm not sure you need an extra launcher for that. I think people will be content with running that tool from a separate exe.

to be honest in my case it's VERY often. Full playthrough takes me months to complete. In my last full playthrough BG1 NPC Project received few bug fixes that I wanted to get in my game, UB received whole new optional component with new quest. EET also received some internal code changes. And yet I was forced to play with that particular installation to the end due to problem with TLK entries in saves.

 

Again, I doubt there are too many people eager to re-read the readme file 5 times a week. Navigating to the EET folder and opening the readme file from there should be fine.

That would be a link to online readme and documentation file. Always up to date even if your installation is a year old etc.

 

4. Switching GUI layouts.

 

This looks like it might be the feature with the most “launcher synergy”. The question is; will this feature support other GUI mods (I'm sure there will be EET GUI mods or EET compatible forks of other GUI mods) and will people really use this feature to an extent that justifies a launcher (as opposed to just picking their desired GUI mod and sticking with that).

good point

 

But in that case, how much use is the launcher really? I would still have to update a dozen or so other mods by hand (or via BWS) anyway. Having a launcher so I have to click on one less WeiDU exe still seems pointless to me.

I've already coded a new weidu mod for GUI switch. Than it came to me that whole code for save updating is already ready within macros.tph file (since that's how BG:EE resources strings are added during installation, expanding it to support save files would be very easy) so why not add another exe. WoBG mentioned in the first post has code for implementing hotfixes, so again thought it may be a good idea to implement it. And than after thinking about it more I came to the conclusion that all of these features available via weidu exe files or weidu menus will scare off players that are not experienced mod users or those who ignores readme files. So to make it more "casual" friendly I've came up with an idea of launcher that is a standard thing for windows applications and everyone understand how to use it.

 

It's still just an idea though. Without a simple program that could be used to create such launcher (for both Windows and Macs) it won't be implemented either way.

[Lordoflinks]

I would like such a utility, because one of the problems with BWS is the HUGE space requirement (35gbish) compared to the base game (12gb at most) and such a utility would be nice as a less space intensive alternative. Besides perhaps it could offer support for the more "lore" friendly mods such as Tweaks, UB, NPC Project and the like that a more minimalist playthough would demand. I am waiting for 2.2 and this mod for my first BG playthrough.

EDIT:

In summery, while BWS may work, for a beginner a BGT Launcher would be best. It would also work nice as a UI switcher.

[Ulb]

I would like such a utility, because one of the problems with BWS is the HUGE space requirement (35gbish) compared to the base game (12gb at most) and such a utility would be nice as a less space intensive alternative. Besides perhaps it could offer support for the more "lore" friendly mods such as Tweaks, UB, NPC Project and the like that a more minimalist playthough would demand. I am waiting for 2.2 and this mod for my first BG playthrough.

EDIT:

In summery, while BWS may work, for a beginner a BGT Launcher would be best. It would also work nice as a UI switcher.

 

Hm, I think you misunderstood something (or I did, you can never be sure. )

The BWS itself is a rather small file, what makes it "big" are all the other mods it lets you download and install. There is nothing a new launcher could do to reduce the initial disc space needed for all those mods or the final EET installation's discspace.

 

 

@K4htos

 

I actually didn't realize the EET update feature you mentioned would be different (and much quicker) from how you usually update a mod with WeiDU. In such a case it might actually be a usefull feature for keeping EET updated.

 

I assume the BG engine does not allow you to implement this update feature into the game itself? (E.G.: Have an "Update" button on the start screen next to "Select Campaign" and clicking that button just starts the update process via a comand prompt?

[K4thos]

I would like such a utility, because one of the problems with BWS is the HUGE space requirement (35gbish) compared to the base game (12gb at most) and such a utility would be nice as a less space intensive alternative. Besides perhaps it could offer support for the more "lore" friendly mods such as Tweaks, UB, NPC Project and the like that a more minimalist playthough would demand. I am waiting for 2.2 and this mod for my first BG playthrough.

EDIT:

In summery, while BWS may work, for a beginner a BGT Launcher would be best. It would also work nice as a UI switcher.

As Ulb mentioned this idea is not related to BWS. If you want to automatically install many mods at once instead of doing it manually than you have to use BWS (which is awesome tool and recommended to be used with EET since it saves tons of time). The size of BWS is dependent on amount of mods you choose to download. Select nothing and the tool folder will weight next to nothing.

 

I assume the BG engine does not allow you to implement this update feature into the game itself? (E.G.: Have an "Update" button on the start screen next to "Select Campaign" and clicking that button just starts the update process via a comand prompt?

nope, I'm not aware about such thing.

[Lordoflinks]

My error, I thought you had to download all of the mods of BWS before you picked, not as you did so.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Ulb asked my question in a more elaborate way ... our concerns are very like minded... so I'll take your answers to them and pick it from there.

 

The question is; why would I ever want to use the EET launcher to update the EET independently instead of using the BWS to update ALL my mods?

 

I think it is fair to assume that in a year from now, with a reasonable amount of EET supporting mods (of which the bigger part will probably be BG2 mods) updating the EET with WeiDU will take something like 80% of the time it would take to just do a new BWS installation.

- few hours of mod installation to re-install everything

- or less than a minute to update the game including save games if needed

Although I agree that it's not a crucial feature.

 

Erhm, are you sure you can do this ... including fixing/compiling new dialog files after install on the fly, cinematic, game features, and what ever the other 500 mod do. Yeah, the BWS has about 500 mods it can deal with a 1500 mod component, how are you going to even be able to cope with all that ?

And if you say it's not BWS related, then you'll have to be capable of coping with BWS users that have "broken" game setups.... the scope of it, ouh.

 

The other idea is just to make a minimalist mod(or a few), and let the BWS users to tear into them with their fix-patching. It won't be as simple hop on, but when ever they(*) come up with a fix, you can update your mod, and the other people will have their mods up to date in BWS installs ... Yes, the game is a major time sink, but making always up to date mods to it will be a humongous sunken city project that will never end, or even get to a "2% complete".

 

* The reason why the BWS fix'es have thus far been able to out update every mod they keep up is that they work 24-7-365-at-100%, how you ask, cause it's you and everyone else working together in the forums and the fixes that the team picks up are the ones that come up.

 

to be honest in my case it's VERY often. Full playthrough takes me months to complete. In my last full playthrough BG1 NPC Project received few bug fixes that I wanted to get in my game, UB received whole new optional component with new quest. EET also received some internal code changes. And yet I was forced to play with that particular installation to the end due to problem with TLK entries in saves.

The thing with this is, the BWS install is very much based on the time it is installed yes.

But I see no system that will allow the player to be able to update their current game in more sufficient manner.

Yes, if you or anyone comes up with a fix or addition to the BWS mods, it's likely to be in a few days ready to be installed. You can't install it to a current game, but making one of them to be install-able would take a lot more than just a few reinstalls will take, and at this point, there are thousand small or big fixes to mods around.

 

I would like such a utility, because one of the problems with BWS is the HUGE space requirement (35gbish) compared to the base game (12gb at most) and

The huge "space requirement" is there as a warning, I myself have had two ~30GB installs from a BWS when I was testing the weidu.exe update a long time ago. It's to relate that you might run to a problem, even though you are unlikely to install every mod under the sun, you are capable of doing that, so the warning needs to be there. Have you ever seen a giant ? It's something people talk about even if it's just about a mundane 7 feet guy.

[Bill Bisco]

Hi K4thos,

Thanks for your work.

Let's look at the 10,000 feet level. What do people want with modded BG Games?

0. They want mods to be bug-free, nearly bug-free, and/or free of critical bugs.

1. They want to be able to easily find and download the mods that are available

2. They want to be able to easily install mods they downloaded

3. They want to be able to easily install new/updated mods after they've started their game

4. They want to be able to play already-started games with new/updated mods without bugs

Individual modders are responsible for 0 and upon this depend the success of multi-modding as a whole.

BWS does a form of 1-2 and perhaps 3. Your proposed EET launcher would do 4.

Your code to patch save games to work with new/updated mods should probably be made into a mod/tool that is a part of Big World Setup (if it's not already).

Granted, BWS is windows only. If your launcher can both download and install updates to EET across more platforms, then there is a strong argument to include that in your launcher!

However, if you can download and install EET updates across multiple platforms, what prevents you from downloading, installing, and updating other mods across platforms? In essence, perhaps it would be best to integrate a mod manager like BWS into your Launcher directly?

If EET was instead Enhanced Edition Trilogy & Mod Manager, you would be much closer to your goal of EET becoming a central modding platform. The instructions would simple:

1. Install the games (BGEE, BGSOD, BG2EE)

2. Install EET

3. Open EET & Select Mod Manager

4. Select desired mods & install.

You could add button to check for updates to all installed mods and allow people to download and install the updates and then patch their existing games.

This would be complicated work obviously, but would be one wholistic way of serving player desires.