IR Revised V1.3.800 (2022 January 11th)

[spanyam]

I have a terribly out of date installation and would like to run the latest of SRR + IRR + SCS + EET + any essential fixpacks. What's the best way to get that set up? Manual install or EET Install tool? I'm having a tough time finding up to date info across all the different mod forums.

[Salk]

8 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

... and no Helm of Balduran..

Sorry, can you elaborate? Has IRR removed Helm of Balduran from the game? I sincerely hope not.

Also, I am not really fond of having the Horn of Kazgaroth duplicated since it's always been a unique item. What was the rationale for this decision?

Edited August 11, 2020 by Salk

[Bartimaeus]

2 hours ago, Salk said:

Sorry, can you elaborate? Has IRR removed Helm of Balduran from the game? I sincerely hope not.

Also, I am not really fond of having the Horn of Kazgaroth duplicated since it's always been a unique item. What was the rationale for this decision?

We were on the subject of item importation - IRR kind of assume that Mail of the Dead +2 and Helm of Balduran are always the imported items. Non-revised IR places Protector of the Second (an alternative import option to Mail of the Dead +2) elsewhere, while Almateria's Restoration Project places the Horn of Kazgaroth on the lich Deril (which I opted to duplicate for people not using it - by removing it from him and then adding it back, of course, as him carrying two would be quite silly if you were using Almateria's Restoration Project). If you decide to import either the Claw of Kazgaroth or the Horn of Kazgaroth instead of the Helm of Balduran, then the Helm of Balduran will naturally not appear in Irenicus' dungeon (not a change I made), and it would unfortunately lead to a duplicate of them as they're already placed elsewhere, so I naturally would not recommend doing that. There's probably a way to modify the item importation script to make this impossible to happen, I might have to look into it...

Furthermore, I also just realized that Fallorain's Plate +1 (which doesn't even exist in BG2, though I recreated it for BGT/BG1EE/EET games) and a generic Chain Mail +3 are also alternatives to Mail of the Dead +2, which are both kind of silly, so that's even less reason to have the vanilla item importation script do anything but add the Helm of Balduran and Mail of the Dead to Irenicus' dungeon.

@spanyam Sorry, I really don't know, as I don't use automated install tools, and I don't run any Enhanced Edition games (though I've certainly made plenty of fixes of IR items for them...). Someone else would be better suited to answer this. Note that if you do go with an automated installation, IRR and SRR must be extracted on top of IR and SR respectively *before* IR or SR are installed, which may or may not be something you have to manually do after all your mods are extracted to your game directory.

[spanyam]

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

@spanyam Sorry, I really don't know, as I don't use automated install tools, and I don't run any Enhanced Edition games (though I've certainly made plenty of fixes of IR items for them...). Someone else would be better suited to answer this. Note that if you do go with an automated installation, IRR and SRR must be extracted on top of IR and SR respectively *before* IR or SR are installed, which may or may not be something you have to manually do after all your mods are extracted to your game directory.

No worries, I will figure it out somehow. I took a look at my old installation, and I have SCS + IRR + SRv4b18, which should be good enough for now. Now that you mention it, I remember installing this last December using EET install tool and extracting on top of the item_rev folder before starting the install. EEkeeper seems to have the right items for now

[NdranC]

5 hours ago, spanyam said:

No worries, I will figure it out somehow. I took a look at my old installation, and I have SCS + IRR + SRv4b18, which should be good enough for now. Now that you mention it, I remember installing this last December using EET install tool and extracting on top of the item_rev folder before starting the install. EEkeeper seems to have the right items for now

This works. My current install was made with the EET Install Tool and IRR + SRR + a lot of other mods. I made my own custom basic mods to it as well by modifying basic 2da files and copying them over. If you just want an easy and simple client it's probably the most painless way but might not be the best way if you know what you are doing.

Remember to check the settings.ini files for IRR and SRR for more customization and settings that will not show up with the automatic tool.

[NdranC]

7 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

We were on the subject of item importation - IRR kind of assume that Mail of the Dead +2 and Helm of Balduran are always the imported items. Non-revised IR places Protector of the Second (an alternative import option to Mail of the Dead +2) elsewhere, while Almateria's Restoration Project places the Horn of Kazgaroth on the lich Deril (which I opted to duplicate for people not using it - by removing it from him and then adding it back, of course, as him carrying two would be quite silly if you were using Almateria's Restoration Project). If you decide to import either the Claw of Kazgaroth or the Horn of Kazgaroth instead of the Helm of Balduran, then the Helm of Balduran will naturally not appear in Irenicus' dungeon (not a change I made), and it would unfortunately lead to a duplicate of them as they're already placed elsewhere, so I naturally would not recommend doing that. There's probably a way to modify the item importation script to make this impossible to happen, I might have to look into it...

Furthermore, I also just realized that Fallorain's Plate +1 (which doesn't even exist in BG2, though I recreated it for BGT/BG1EE/EET games) and a generic Chain Mail +3 are also alternatives to Mail of the Dead +2, which are both kind of silly, so that's even less reason to have the vanilla item importation script do anything but add the Helm of Balduran and Mail of the Dead to Irenicus' dungeon.

I don't know how I feel about the import feature. Why not just import all items instead of a priority based on a list that is not really transparent to a player without metagaming?

If I was playing the game on my own I would be using the claw for my sorcerer but I would also pickup the helm of balduran for a warrior friend leading my main character getting punished by bringing an item I can't really use. The fact that its debatably better or worse should be left up to the player because even if the helm is better it's not usable by the protagonist making it a boring and forced "choice".

[Bartimaeus]

40 minutes ago, NdranC said:

I don't know how I feel about the import feature. Why not just import all items instead of a priority based on a list that is not really transparent to a player without metagaming?

If I was playing the game on my own I would be using the claw for my sorcerer but I would also pickup the helm of balduran for a warrior friend leading my main character getting punished by bringing an item I can't really use. The fact that its debatably better or worse should be left up to the player because even if the helm is better it's not usable by the protagonist making it a boring and forced "choice".

I think it was a neat idea by BioWare whose implementation left a bit to be desired. The priority problem (which puts Helm of Balduran always at the top and therefore makes it the overwhelmingly the most likely choice to be imported) isn't great. There's also the fact that even if you don't have any of these items (or are coming from a new game entirely), it still "imports" an item (which is again, the Helm of Balduran), which means the majority of people probably expect the Helm of Balduran to be there. The secondary list (with the Helm of Balduran and other items) is also not equal, unlike the first (which are all just armor items) - personally, my favorite item of the list is the Claw of Kazgaroth, which is the reason I placed it elsewhere in the game while assuming the Helm of Balduran will be in Irenicus' dungeon. Also, I guess BG2EE creates a third list of items to be imported...but they used a list of weapons that are mostly already placed in vanilla BG2, and the ones that aren't are by IR anyways, so that's not great. I'm not a hundred percent how I'll resolve this.

[Salk]

8 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

We were on the subject of item importation - IRR kind of assume that Mail of the Dead +2 and Helm of Balduran are always the imported items.

Oh of course! Sorry about the confusion.

I have practically no memory/recollection of how imported items work but I suppose BG2/BGT/BG2:EE/EET check for the inventory of imported characters or saved game and decide which item should be kept and which should be discarded?

It's pretty shocking to realize that I have only completed the BG1 part of BGT and I am therefore totally ignorant about the transition and the item importation process and that I only played BG2/ToB once over 10 years ago...

[pochesun]

15 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

>Is it just IR or IR+IRR?

Sorry, I should really stop using IR and IRR, SR and SRR interchangeably - whenever I've referred to either, I really just meant IRR or SRR, as I have no authority over the official versions of IR or SR. I just mean to install the "main components" of both in that order, with the main components being the first components of each.

I am truly sorry but i still cant get what you mean by "Main component"

Just to make it plain, the instal order: IR->IRR->SR->SRR->SCS?

[NdranC]

9 minutes ago, pochesun said:

I am truly sorry but i still cant get what you mean by "Main component"

Just to make it plain, the instal order: IR->IRR->SR->SRR->SCS?

First of all you don't install IRR or SRR. You download it and copy and paste the contents of the zip into the base IR and SR respectively before actually installing IR or SR. IRR and SRR are patches to the originals. Not mods of their own.

Weidu mods in general tend to be divided in sub-componets so you can pick a choose what to install. The "Main Component" is one of these sub-components of both IR and SR. Despite what it may seem you shouldn't necessarily install all of the components of a mod at the same time. Sometimes you want to install some components of a mod then swap to another mod and install some components of that other mod, then comeback and install some more components of the first mod. Every component tends to affect a different part of the game and depending on the amount and types of mods you are installing then it gets complicated when you should do one or the other.

In your case, since you only seem interested in SCS+IRR+SRR then IR>SR>SCS seems adequate. Just remember to patch IR and SR with IRR and SRR before installing.

[NdranC]

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

I think it was a neat idea by BioWare whose implementation left a bit to be desired. The priority problem (which puts Helm of Balduran always at the top and therefore makes it the overwhelmingly the most likely choice to be imported) isn't great. There's also the fact that even if you don't have any of these items (or are coming from a new game entirely), it still "imports" an item (which is again, the Helm of Balduran), which means the majority of people probably expect the Helm of Balduran to be there. The secondary list (with the Helm of Balduran and other items) is also not equal, unlike the first (which are all just armor items) - personally, my favorite item of the list is the Claw of Kazgaroth, which is the reason I placed it elsewhere in the game while assuming the Helm of Balduran will be in Irenicus' dungeon. Also, I guess BG2EE creates a third list of items to be imported...but they used a list of weapons that are mostly already placed in vanilla BG2, and the ones that aren't are by IR anyways, so that's not great. I'm not a hundred percent how I'll resolve this.

I like the idea of having an incentive to play Baldur's Gate 1 so you can unlock the ability to obtain certain items in the sequel. What I don't like is the lack of transparency, the arbitrary forced choice of what's the "better" item and the convoluted system behind it all. In my ideal world, the game would find all the items in your inventory (or even better just flag the fact you looted them even if not on you) and import ALL of them to the new game placed and paced appropriately. Maybe even with a little tidbit that would highlight how the item ended up in the new place or maybe some of them are left unstated for you to imagine how, for example, the Claw of Kazgaroth ended up in the Underdark.

It comes to reason that if you don't play the prequel then none of the items should import at all. It is your reward for playing the previous game in the same way starting with a higher xp cap is another reward for doing so. Obviously thanks to mods anybody can customize skip this requirement but it's up to them.

Edited August 11, 2020 by NdranC

[Bartimaeus]

38 minutes ago, NdranC said:

import ALL of them to the new game placed and placed appropriately

This is kind of already what happens. IR places a couple of items that were used by the import mechanic, basically ignoring that they could be import options and instead just placing them regardless. 4/4 items of the first list will be present somewhere in BG2 with IR installed (well, sort of - Fallorain's Plate just becomes a generic Plate Mail +1, but it's functionally the same), at least assuming Mail of the Dead +2 is the imported item. Similarly, with IRR installed, 4/4 items of the second list will be present somewhere in BG2 assuming that the Helm of Balduran is the item found in Irenicus' dungeon - if instead you choose one of the other three options (such as the Claw of Kazgaroth), that means there will be two Claws of Kazgaroth in the game and no Helm of Balduran, since IRR already places the Claw elsewhere (similarly, if you choose something instead of Mail of the Dead, that means a duplicate of the other option and no Mail of the Dead in the game at all). That's why I was considering disabling the vanilla import mechanic altogether and simply forcing the Helm of Balduran and Mail of the Dead +2 to always be what's found, to prevent pointless duplicates as well as prevent either Mail of the Dead +2 or Helm of Balduran from never appearing in the game.

@pochesunAs NdranC said, you don't ever actually install IR or SR - you extract IR and SR into your game directory, then extract IRR and SRR into the same location, then install the main component of IR (now IRR), then the main component of SR (now SRR). It is a bit of an obtuse process, but it's this way to prevent confusion for everyone on who's using IRR or SRR instead of the base mods. The "main components" are the very first components of both mods that it asks whether you want to install, they are the bulk of the modified content.

@Salk Yeah, every version of BG2 will check the inventory of the character before it does the "strip the party of all items" function at the very start of the game before the intro Irenicus torture cutscene. There are two lists (now three with BG2EE) plus a check for the Golden Pantaloons.

From the wiki: "[...] one item from each of the two lists below is brought, with the higher position in the list taking precedence over the lower. For example, a character who has both the Helm of Balduran and The Claw of Kazgaroth in inventory, will only have the helm recovered. Items tagged with [Default] is what is presented if the character either has none of the listed items, or if the player didn't use an imported character. #1 is worn by Ilyich at (1529, 448) and #2 is in a chest at (3748, 907) along with Air Elemental Statue in the same area.

Table #1:

    Protector of the Second
    Mail of the Dead [Default]
    Fallorain's Plate
    Chainmail +3

Table #2:

    Helm of Balduran [Default]
    The Claw of Kazgaroth
    The Horn of Kazgaroth
    Koveras's Ring of Protection +1"

In regards to completing BG2, I have the opposite problem - I've only ever truly finished BG1 like a couple of times, I have so much difficulty retaining interest in the run by the time I clear all the wilderness areas and I finally get inside of Baldur's Gate city proper, and I just want to move on to BG2. Different strokes from different folks and all that.

[subtledoctor]

17 hours ago, spanyam said:

I have a terribly out of date installation and would like to run the latest of SRR + IRR + SCS + EET + any essential fixpacks. What's the best way to get that set up? Manual install or EET Install tool? I'm having a tough time finding up to date info across all the different mod forums.

You certainly don't need a mod manager for four mods...

• install EET (will take... ~10-20 minutes?)
• install IR(R) main component (near-instantaneous)
• install SR(R) (will take a minute or three)
• install IR(R) later components (near-instantaneous)
• install SCS (will take maybe half an hour)

Automating that with PI or the quasi-BWS will probably be more complex and take longer than just doing it manually...

[Bartimaeus]

17 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

You certainly don't need a mod manager for four mods...

• install EET (will take... ~10-20 minutes?)
• install IR(R) main component (near-instantaneous)
• install SR(R) (will take a minute or three)
• install IR(R) later components (near-instantaneous)
• install SCS (will take maybe half an hour)

Automating that with PI or the quasi-BWS will probably be more complex and take longer than just doing it manually...

That's true, I didn't take it they meant literally only those mods, but if that's really all you have, then yeah, makes no sense to automate it.

[pochesun]

6 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

 

@pochesunAs NdranC said, you don't ever actually install IR or SR - you extract IR and SR into your game directory, then extract IRR and SRR into the same location, then install the main component of IR (now IRR), then the main component of SR (now SRR). It is a bit of an obtuse process, but it's this way to prevent confusion for everyone on who's using IRR or SRR instead of the base mods. The "main components" are the very first components of both mods that it asks whether you want to install, they are the bulk of the modified content.

 

Early my installation order was: unpack IR then unpack IRR (with overwtiring some files) and then istall it. After that i did the same with SR and SRR. Now i was just a bit confused that it should be: first unpack IR then unpack IRR (with overwtiring some files),  then unpack SR, then unpack SRR (with overwtiring some files) and only after all unpacking is done installing IRR and then SRR. I assume now its somehow important that i can not install IR right after i unpack it but before i unpack SR. Or my usual installation order still works?

Edited August 12, 2020 by pochesun