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IR Revised V1.3.400 (2021 March 17th)


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Just finished a run and can confirm @pochesun's comment on the belt.

My feedback:

In general, I highly disagree with the choices that modify overpowered items by giving them spells/abilities per day. It's a hassle, and we already have equivalent spells and abilities for most of these cases in our spellbooks, I ended up not using almost any of them, and I did a full EET run with SCS on Hardcore.

I think more variety on the boots and helmets is desperately needed. I could never find any boots that were worth the slot, except for the boots of speed and the boots of etherealness. Boots of phasing are fun as they are, though.

The Ravager halberd is too underpowered for an end-game item. The poison damage never seems to apply, at this stage in the game fights are too fast and damage is dealt too fast for the poison effect to be noticeable. Vanilla ravager is a machine, but this one is not significantly better than The Wave at the moment.

Spears are incomprehensible for me now. Backbiter is crazy good for BG1, even with the damage to the owner. We don't need throwing spears all around, only one is needed if you REALLY want the novelty to be there (so maybe keep the lightning one). Impaler went from being one of the most appealing weapons in the game to being almost equivalent to a boring spear with +X elemental damage. If the problem is that it's too strong for a throwing weapon, just remove that and make the damage better. Ixil's spike is also super underwhelming, at that stage no one fails the save so it's just a boring +5 spear with nothing else going for it.

Staff of the Magi is a useless item. It was supposed to be the strongest mage artifact, but the abilities it provides at the moment are all easily accessible to any semi-high level mage (which is the point we get the staff at). Very underwhelming item. Instead of having Improved Invisibility on equip, maybe something like minor globe of invulnerability on equip and +caster level on spell cast. The dispel on hit is useless for a regular mage, and even for a fighter mage it's useless because strong enemy mages always cast protection from magical weapons, so by the time your hit counts, you have already dispelled the other stuff beforehand.

Axe of the Unyielding seems to be extremely overpowered, I couldn't find any reason to use Flail of the Ages instead, unless I was trying to hit over stoneskins. The vorpal hit is incredible and having regen + max hp increase is way too strong. Is completely unbalanced at the moment.

Grandmaster's armor is a bit too good. I still had super low AC (because of high dex bonus) + Improved haste, so there's no point in using any of the high level plate armors when you already have high dex and this armor available. On a less overpowered note, same can be said for Red Dragon plate. As of now, there is no reason to use heavier armor sets, unless you are stubborn and want to insist on having a low dex tank.

Amulet of Power isn't terrible, but spell level 4 is a bit too low, I would put it up to 5. Only cleric/mages really benefit from it substantially.

Crom Fayer should be +5. I don't understand this obsession with only having +5 weapons appear in ToB.
 

Edited by megapilhas
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On 12/9/2020 at 8:40 PM, pochesun said:

@Bartimaeus I am on another bg  run and Belt of Inertial Barrier still not working :) 

BGEE, BG2EE? I guess I am going to test this on all games, because it definitively worked on a clean install when I checked it. I checked it! I really did!

@megapilhas

Thanks for the feedback.

Abilities per day: Agreed, there are way too many, and I'd be in favor of converting some of them to passive abilities where appropriate. For example, one that I can think of actually ties into the Ravager which you mentioned as being underwhelming, which has a laughable Aura of Fear ability that I can't see anybody in the entire world using in ToB (especially because the fear effect tends to be more annoying than useful beyond low levels). I'd like to convert that into an aura of paralysis (stunning from fear) at maybe a -2 save with...a 10 or 20' radius. Right now, I'm too busy to redesign stuff like this, but if you have good ideas for conversions of particularly not-used item abilities, I definitely want to hear them for when I have more time in the future. Also in regards to Ravager, I think I decreased the poison damage from 10 per second to 5 per second at some point in the distant past because 10 per second was insane...but if you consider a number of the other +5 superweapons, like K'logarath, which has a vorpal death effect OR the additional 3D8 damage if the vorpal effect fails, then I think giving it back the 10 per second makes a lot of sense, so I may well change that back as well.

Boots: I'm not too big on the boots in the game, either - most of them are like "Ring of Fire Resistance"-level of usefulness. However, this mod is not really aimed at introducing brand new items to the game for the most part (with the exception of Boots of the Shifting Sands, which were a total replacement for something else custom that the mod added that were useless, but which I only intended to serve as a placeholder for something better because the Shifting Sands boots are pretty terrible, too - if anyone has any ideas, especially ones that have some basis in lore even if they're from a different game, I'd welcome hearing them). Boots are what they are at this point (which is an underused class of items).

Crom Faeyr: Not my decision, but I imagine it was set to +4 not necessarily because of SoA vs. ToB, but because it's insanely strong what with the strength bonus, being throwable, and the stunning/electrical damage. I've actually unnerfed this compared to regular IR: regular IR additionally gave it -1/2 ApR (removed entirely) and only 1D4 electrical damage (increased to 1D6).

Backbiter: I like the novelty of this one, so it's probably not going to change even if it's very powerful if you're willing to stack healing on healing to make it work.

Ixil's: There are a number of special effects like the pinning on this that should have their saves upgraded - I'll upgrade it to -2 to make it at least a little more effective. It is underwhelming for a +5 weapon, though (especially one that absorbs another +4 weapon to make, and coincidentally is in the spear category which have historically been bad). I didn't remember this until I just checked right now, but apparently I also gave it a Keen property - this is not on the standard IR version of the item, so it used to be even worse!

Impaler: +10 damage straight-up is absolutely ludicrous. A Spear +3  (1D6+3) does an average of 6.5 damage (2HS+3 8.5), while the normal Impaler +3 would do an average of 16.5. If it was later in the game/ToB, there might be an argument for restoring it, but it so vastly outclassed everything (probably because the spear class absolutely sucks elsewise in vanilla) that it's difficult to see an argument for restoring it.

Staff of the Magi: Agreed that it's a confused design with something needing to change. A permanent Minor Globe of Invulnerability is an interesting idea, but...honestly sounds not particularly useful as well (and possibly really annoying)? A Minor Globe is a 4th level spell that's easily cast, so are you really going to want that on all the time?

Axe of the Unyielding: You think so? Hmm. I find the upgraded vorpal effect a must for making it not dumb, and I really didn't think the modest HP bonus and 1 hp/round regeneration was that crazy. Hmm, hmm...

Grandmaster's Armor + other heavy plates: I don't use the dexterity penalties for heavy armor component, so this may be a blind spot for me.

Amulet of Power: People that use multi-class mage/clerics seem to usually love its current design, while it's probably a little more underwhelming if you don't.

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@megapilhas great feedback and i am inclined to agree with most of it.

@Bartimaeus yes it was EE version and my constant and never changing installation pack is BG EE, IRR, SRR, SCS (with ascension in BG 2 EE). Nothing else. 

Also on a sidenote, while doing my runs i am becoming more and more convinced that some potions being indispellable is a cheat. Which ones is debatable but potion of speed comes to mind first. 

Edited by pochesun
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@Bartimaeus

I agree with most of your points, so let me comment just on the ones where I think it would be good to clarify further.

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Ravager

Your idea for a paralysis aura is interesting, definitely sounds better.

This was originally a weapon mainly meant for slaying opponents quickly (0.1 chance of vorpal hit and +6D3dmg on hit, if I'm not wrong), so I tend to disagree with an approach that makes it apply damage that stacks through time. I think the poison damage should be high, on hit, and with a VERY tough save (-4), to ensure the effect isn't shrugged off by all enemies in higher difficulties.

If you put 10dmg/s, you get 60dmg/round (30/round if 5/s). You can make it on hit 4d4, so that what a 5-star proficiency fighter can pull off per round is going to be (expected value) 5*E[4d4]=5*8=40  (range from 4 to 16 for each hit). If you compare with the vanilla design with the additional vorpal hit of 10%, I think this is reasonable, and a middle ground between the options of 5dmg/s vs 10dmg/s that is still more faithful to the vanilla view of the weapon.

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Crom Fayer:

I honestly don't understand IR's goal of making this a throwable weapon. It's a str+5 weapon, it's clearly meant for tenderizing opponents.

I tried to find references on the internet to lore relating to it (because I think I read on the IR original index that they made it throwable because of its original lore, but alas, I found nothing). I personally would make it +5 and not throwable, because of all the incredible items you have to give up on just to build this thing.

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Staff of the Magi:

Minor Globe of Invulnerability was just a suggestion of the top of my head while I writing the post, I was trying to think of a permanent effect that wouldn't be way too broken, but that one is probably useless as well, you're right.

Maybe permanent True Sight? It's useful for mages to dispel enemy defenses, saves you having to cast detect invisibility every fight, but not overpowered because it won't work without dispelling Non-Detection/Immunity:Divination. Afterwards, some additional passive casting effects. Is it possible to script it so that the enemy's saves against the caster's spells are made with a -1 or -2 penalty?

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Axe of the Unyielding:

Max HP + regen is very potent. I put it on a character with a ring of larloch (chance to drain on hit) and ring of regen and while it didnt save that character from almost getting killed, it definitely made a huge difference in a pinch. The vorpal effect is really the soul of the design, so I wouldn't take it out.

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Impaler:

I would personally take out the throwing style and give it a +crit chance effect (since it's supposed to be an "impaler" afterall), as well as changing the damage on hit to 1d12. Its status as the most damaging spear would be kept.

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Ixil's Spike:

If the spear is indeed going to be underwhelming in its damage output, I think it would be cool to give it a role as a "disabler" on par with its status as an end-game weapon and the "best" of its class, while Impaler remains the most damaging option. Like my suggestion for the Ravager, I would give the pinning effect a VERY tough save (-4), to ensure the effect isn't shrugged off by all enemies in higher difficulties.

 

 

Edited by megapilhas
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@megapilhas

Ravager: It occurs to me that Serpent Shaft has a straight poison damage roll bonus. I might transfer that on over to Ravager (except make it 1D8 instead of 1D6) while also leaving the halved (5 per second) Viperous poison effect. Better and more consistent damage per hit worthy of a superweapon, plus I'll eventually implement the paralysis aura which should hopefully offset anything else and ultimately make it more interesting. And that way, I don't really have to overthink the numbers, which is a problem I frequently have because I have a little bit of an OCPD.

Crom Faeyr: I don't think there's any P&P equivalent for Crom Faeyr, but from what I understand, this is supposed to be like an upgraded version of the classic P&P weapon The Hammer of Thunderbolts, which *does* have a throwing ability. I would guess that the "Crom Faeyr" name is derived from some other real-life source, probably either Scandinavian or perhaps Celtic in origin. One thing I don't like doing is changing enchantment bonuses from iconic P&P items (a big part of why I didn't want to raise the enchantment bonus for Blackrazor even though it desperately needed it), but as Crom Faeyr has no apparent P&P origin, I don't really care strongly either way so long as the weapon's not ridiculous. For me, it's the strength bonus that's the problem with this weapon. If everyone was using 3E-style stats, then I would immediately upgrade this back up to a +5 weapon, because 3E-style strength fixes just how absurd getting up to 25 strength is...but I don't think most people do, so I'm loathe to do so.

Staff of the Magi: I've always wanted an item with permanent True Seeing on it, actually, so that might be a good choice, especially with how important Detect Invisibility/True Seeing is for mages in an SR+SCS game (although the absurdity of Edwin being able to use this...well, that's not my problem). I'll definitely consider that and some other tweaks to this staff at some point.

Axe of the Unyielding: How ridiculous can we get with just items, I wonder? Ring of Regeneration, Ring of Kangaxx, Pearly White Ioun Stone, Axe of the Unyielding, Cloak of Balduran, Trollhide Armor, Blackrazor for 7 hp/round (plus you can throw a long-term Regeneration spell on for 8 hp/round), plus additional options for HP like Ring of Larloch, Amulet of Health, Girdle of Fortitude, and Roranach's Horn. However, I've always been a big believer in that as long as it's not patently broken, powerful combinations like this should be possible - if you want to abuse a game by putting literally everything of some particular stat on one character and just ride them, then play the game that way. I'm not going to do that, but if you like that, go ahead. In a vacuum, I'm not convinced that Axe of the Unyielding is particularly exceptionally strong, and also, if I was going to replace either the maximum HP bonus or the regeneration bonus, I'm not sure with what that would be...so for the time being, I think it's okay.

Impaler: I kind of already gave that to Ixil's, though...perhaps a weaker vorpal effect a la Heartseeker instead?

Ixil's: Yeah, I'll have to consider all what to do with it. Free Action is a decent but not particularly strong buff, it didn't even used to have the +5% critical chance, and the pinning effect is nigh unusable at the stage you get it. Even with a better saving throw penalty, it's still a little underwhelming. So I'll have to think...

Edited by Bartimaeus
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Is there a comprehensive list somewhere for IRR items that offer strength increase or apr increase? 

For STR increase, I am tracking the various belts, gauntlets of ogre, and maybe a mace? For weapons with apr, is it only now just belm and kundane offering 1/2 apr increase?

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On 12/14/2020 at 4:35 PM, Endarire said:

@Bartimaeus
Since by your admission Blackrazor desperately needed an upgrade, what about making an upgraded version as an install option, an upgrade smith option, or just improving it for the sake of player experiences?

Smith upgrade option won't happen, I'd prefer to upgrade it in of itself. It's the end-SoA weapon that you get for being evil...it should be powerful. It's just that the devs picked Blackrazor of all weapons, which just isn't really a good fit. Kind of wish it were something like...Unholy Reaver +5 (though it'd have to be usable by more types of characters) instead. I really don't know what to do with it.

@morpheus562

item_rev\languages\english\item_descriptions.tra has the text for all the items, you can do searches in there. For APR, Bracers of Speed (+1), Gauntlets of Weapon Mastery (+1/2), Kundane (+1/2), Belm (+1/2), Berserking Sword (+1), Light Crossbow of Speed (+1), Sling of Everard +3 (+1), Spear of Lordly Might +3 (+1/2...I should increase this to +1 given the other decent spear options TBH), Tuigan Bow (+1), Taralash (+1), and Staff of Air (+1/2) I think are all of them.

For Strength, it's Girdle of Priestly Might (+2), Girdle of Giant Strength (+3), Girdle of the Champion (+4), Mauler's Arm +2 (+2), Gauntlets of Ogre Power (+2), Crom Faeyr +4 (+5), Aeger's Hide +3 (+1), Angurvadal +4 (+2), Angurvadal +5 (+3), Gauntlets of Might (+3), and I guess Big-Fisted Belt (+3) from the EE games.

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@pochesun @megapilhas Good news on Belt of Inertial Barrier - it works correctly, it's just that a file straight up isn't copied over by the installer. Move "belt10.eff" over from your item_rev\itm folder into your override and it should hopefully immediately start working. I can only imagine that this file was already inside my override before I installed during my test installation and that's why I thought it was working (since it was). Now I hope to never hear anything about this belt ever again.

Interestingly, the line to have it copied over was actually in item_content.tpa, it's just that it was placed after a stray END and therefore was never firing (I've never seen a situation like this where weidu accepted an END even though there was no corresponding BEGIN or equivalent - that's usually a fatal installation error that prevents the mod from being installed, but for some reason in this particular situation, it's not, as I can just remove it and everything starts working correctly...kinda woulda preferred that it would have immediately errored out so that I could've figured out the problem months ago).

Edited by Bartimaeus
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14 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

@pochesun @megapilhas Good news on Belt of Inertial Barrier - it works correctly, it's just that a file straight up isn't copied over by the installer. Move "belt10.eff" over from your item_rev\itm folder into your override and it should hopefully immediately start working. I can only imagine that this file was already inside my override before I installed during my test installation and that's why I thought it was working (since it was). Now I hope to never hear anything about this belt ever again.

Interestingly, the line to have it copied over was actually in item_content.tpa, it's just that it was placed after a stray END and therefore was never firing (I've never seen a situation like this where weidu accepted an END even though there was no corresponding BEGIN or equivalent - that's usually a fatal installation error that prevents the mod from being installed, but for some reason in this particular situation, it's not, as I can just remove it and everything starts working correctly...kinda woulda preferred that it would have immediately errored out so that I could've figured out the problem months ago).

thank you. but i am a bit confused. Should i move that file manually every time i install IRR?

Edited by pochesun
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11 hours ago, Endarire said:

@Bartimaeus
Would upgrading Blackrazor to be +4 or +5 initially (or +whatever it normally is but strikes as +5) work well enough for you?

I set it to +4 a while ago, but I still don't like it.

8 hours ago, pochesun said:

thank you. but i am a bit confused. Should i move that file manually every time i install IRR?

No, of course not - just for your current install. I've fixed it in the github respository, :p.

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On 12/14/2020 at 6:20 AM, Bartimaeus said:

@megapilhas

Staff of the Magi: I've always wanted an item with permanent True Seeing on it, actually, so that might be a good choice, especially with how important Detect Invisibility/True Seeing is for mages in an SR+SCS game (although the absurdity of Edwin being able to use this...well, that's not my problem). I'll definitely consider that and some other tweaks to this staff at some point.

Impaler: I kind of already gave that to Ixil's, though...perhaps a weaker vorpal effect a la Heartseeker instead?

Ixil's: Yeah, I'll have to consider all what to do with it. Free Action is a decent but not particularly strong buff, it didn't even used to have the +5% critical chance, and the pinning effect is nigh unusable at the stage you get it. Even with a better saving throw penalty, it's still a little underwhelming. So I'll have to think...

I only left the items to discuss on the quote, the others I agree with your reasoning.

Yeah, I immediately thought about Edwin regarding Staff of the Magi. If you want my opinion, I think Edwin's amulet needs to be edited desperately to tone down the effects, that's the real problem here. What is its current effect? +2 slots/level? Definitely needs to be reduced back to one level, and if you want to "even it out" just give it some like +5% magic resistance, I guess.

On the Impaler, that's a cool idea, and fits the weapon theme.

Ixil's a real headache, I agree. The theme of the weapon seems to >the user has freedom >the opponent is restricted; so maybe there's something to be done regarding that? I would suggest +1APR, which would make it deal nice damage per round, but you've already got that on the Spear of Lordly Might. Maybe give it Mind Shield in addition to Free Acton? It would make it a really powerful artifact, defensively.

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