SubtleMods: 5E Spellcasting Rules Conversion

[Endarire]

@Craigerade
What version of OlvynSpells and EEex did you use?

[Craigerade]

1 hour ago, Endarire said:

@Craigerade
What version of OlvynSpells and EEex did you use?

Im using olvynspells 2.2.1 and latest version of EEX. I also installed without EEX and had same error

8 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

What spell is that? The smallest .SPL file should be 202 bytes; is Olvyn’s mod adding a spell with a header but no effects? Maybe there’s some EEex weirdness going on? 

You could try just removing SPPR149 from your override folder, installing 5E, then putting it back. Whatever spell it is won’t work with the 5E memorization system, but it doesn’t seem like it will work anyway, if it has no effects…

From what I could tell SPPR149 is in the ClassSpellTool_overwrite folder of olvyn spell mod along with sppr249,349,449,549,649,749. I assume it has something to do with divine spell? I tried opening the file with nearinfinity, but I don't really know what I'm looking for.

[subtledoctor]

54 minutes ago, Craigerade said:

I tried opening the file with nearinfinity, but I don't really know what I'm looking for.

When you look at a spell in Near Infinity click the "Edit" tab at the top center of the window. Now, at the bottom of the various "Attributes" and "Values" there should be something like "Spell Ability 0      Type: Magical (3), Type Flags: ...[etc.]" This is a "Spell Ability" and there may be between 1 and 40 such abilities in any spell. Double-click this and it will open a new window with more "Attributes" and "Values." At the bottom of these is "Effect 0" and there may be one or more such effects. But, there should be at least one effect in any player-usable spell. the smallest normal player-usable spell should have one ability and that ability should have one effect, and the effect covers bytes 155-202 of the .SPL file. Any spell that is only 154 bytes would seem to have no abilities.

That's my general knowledge on the subject; I know nothing about Olvyn's mod. BUT I can tell you that any spells added by the mod that have no abilities are probably not meant to be player-memorizable spells. Maybe they are there for some underlying mechanism used by the mod (though I would have hoped such files would be kept out of the precious x01-x50 range).

So at any rate, my educated guess is this: if these are not normal player-memorizable spells, then there is no need for the 5E casting mod to process them. In which case, you can simply remove them from your override folder, install 5E casting, and then drop them back into your override folder.

Although, be warned: IIRC, the 5E mod has no way of knowing which spells are normal player-castable spells, because Olvyn's mechanism for adding spells does not adhere to any rule or pattern that would let the 5E mod find them. So if you use these two mods together, you may not be able to cast any spells added by Olvyn's mod. Fair warning.

...

To elaborate on that, here is how the 5E spellcasting mod looks for spells that need to be converted for use with 5E-style memorization:

• any spells with a SPWI or SPPR prefix and numbered from 101-150, 201-250, 301-350, etc. up to 950
• any wizard spells (type=1) that can be learned from scrolls via op147 effects
• any spells in the Faiths & Powers sphere system (FnP leaves a convenient .2da list of all the spells it uses)
• any spells in kit CLAB .2da tables attached to entries starting with "GA_" and which have type=1 or type=2

If any mod adds wizard or priest spells that don't conform to one of those categories/patterns, this cannot incorporate those spells into the 5E memorization system. The authors of any such mods should provide a method for this mod to identify their spells, and I would be happy to include it here. In an ideal world, they might follow the example of Faiths & powers and literally just leave a list of all memorizable spells in a .2da table in the /override folder. I've mentioned this many times about OlvynSpells and never received any response or guidance, so

[Craigerade]

I tried removing the SPPR files from the ClassSpellTool-overwrite folder of olvyn spells and then installing, it installed ok. 5e installed without errors after. I haven't had time to see if it works ok in game. I did open the ClassSpellToll.tpa file of olvyn spells with nearinfinty. this is from the first part. I don't know what im looking at though.

Spoiler

ACTION_IF !(FILE_EXISTS_IN_GAME ~M_MEEXSP.lua~) BEGIN
    COPY ~%MOD_FOLDER%/no_overwrite/M_MEEXSP.lua~ ~override~
    COPY ~%MOD_FOLDER%/ClassSpellTool_overwrite~ ~override~

    COPY_EXISTING ~hidespl.2da~ ~override~
        REPLACE_TEXTUALLY ~\(IS_HIDDEN[ %TAB%]+IS_FINAL\)~ ~\1   IS_REMOVED~
        REPLACE_TEXTUALLY ~\([^ %TAB%%WNL%%MNL%%LNL%]+[ %TAB%]+[01][ %TAB%]+[01]\)~ ~\1          0~
        UNLESS ~IS_REMOVED~

    COPY_EXISTING ~hidespl.2da~ ~override~
        COUNT_2DA_COLS numcolumns
        COUNT_2DA_ROWS numcolumns numrows
        INSERT_2DA_ROW numrows numcolumns ~SPPR149    0          0          1~
        INSERT_2DA_ROW numrows numcolumns ~SPPR249    0          0          1~
        INSERT_2DA_ROW numrows numcolumns ~SPPR349    0          0          1~
        INSERT_2DA_ROW numrows numcolumns ~SPPR449    0          0          1~
        INSERT_2DA_ROW numrows numcolumns ~SPPR549    0          0          1~
        INSERT_2DA_ROW numrows numcolumns ~SPPR649    0          0          1~
        INSERT_2DA_ROW numrows numcolumns ~SPPR749    0          0          1~
        UNLESS ~SPPR749    0          0          1~

    COPY_EXISTING ~kitlist.2da~ ~override~
        COUNT_2DA_ROWS 10 numrows
        FOR (i = 1; i < numrows; ++i) BEGIN
            READ_2DA_ENTRY i 8 10 class_of_kit
            PATCH_IF class_of_kit=3 OR class_of_kit=6 OR class_of_kit=11 OR class_of_kit=12 BEGIN
                READ_2DA_ENTRY i 5 10 abilities_of_kit
                INNER_ACTION BEGIN
                    COPY_EXISTING ~%abilities_of_kit%.2da~ ~override~
                        COUNT_2DA_ROWS 1 numrows
                        INSERT_2DA_ROW numrows 1 ~MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   ~
                        UNLESS ~MENO49~
                END
            END
        END

    COPY_EXISTING ~clabdr01.2da~ ~override~ ~clabpa01.2da~ ~override~ ~clabpr01.2da~ ~override~ ~clabrn01.2da~ ~override~
        COUNT_2DA_ROWS 1 numrows
        INSERT_2DA_ROW numrows 1 ~MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   AP_MENO49   ~
        UNLESS ~MENO49~

 

[Craigerade]

@subtledoctor thank you for your response. I will play around with it more and if I have to choose will probably just play without Olvyn spells then. I would rather have the convenience of the 5e spell casting.

[subtledoctor]

40 minutes ago, Craigerade said:

I tried removing the SPPR files from the ClassSpellTool-overwrite folder of olvyn spells and then installing, it installed ok. 5e installed without errors after.

I would now manually copy those seven files from the ClassSpellTool-overwrite folder, and paste them into your /override folder.

[Endarire]

This list has mods with spells meant to be used by PCs.  Some don't follow the traditional nomenclature.  I noted the ones of these I noticed in this post.

[subtledoctor]

54 minutes ago, Endarire said:

This list has mods with spells meant to be used by PCs.  Some don't follow the traditional nomenclature.  I noted the ones of these I noticed in this post.

Almost all of those are already captured by my four methods. Any mod whose spells are not already captured should establish some mechanism or algorithm that can be added as a fifth method. I’m not doing static lists. (Not that anyone has even given me a static list to work with…) Olvyn’s mod does not to my knowledge provide any such method; and more than that, his tool can be used by modders to add more spells that 1) also don’t provide a method of discovery, and 2) are different again from the spells in Olvyn’s mod. It creates a Pandora’s box of countless player-usable spells, none of which are meaningfully discoverable by other mods. It is a bad idea for that to catch on. (Of course, all it needs to become a good idea is to be amended with a simple function to log the spells added that way. If that were added to the tool I would probably happily endorse it.)

[Craigerade]

On 2/6/2023 at 5:01 PM, subtledoctor said:

I would now manually copy those seven files from the ClassSpellTool-overwrite folder, and paste them into your /override folder.

From what I have tested everything worked fine using this method. I would note for other people over half the olvyn spells currently don't get installed due to olvyn spells 2.2.1 not working with current EEEX. So later these mods might not play nice. I also tried only installing the olvyn base spell modification with 5e casting and they install together without error and work fine. this is probably the better option too just get some buffs to spells without worrying about compatibility.

Thanks again Subtledoctor for your help

[Endarire]

@subtledoctor
I talked with OlvynChuru about your complaint regarding his tool.  He updated it to address your concern.  Enjoy!

[mickabouille]

16 hours ago, Endarire said:

@subtledoctor
I talked with OlvynChuru about your complaint regarding his tool.  He updated it to address your concern.  Enjoy!

this links just leads to

Permission Problem

You don't have permission to do that.

Edited February 9, 2023 by mickabouille

[subtledoctor]

45 minutes ago, mickabouille said:

this links just leads to

Permission Problem

You don't have permission to do that.

It took me to a login page. But I figured out what he was referring to, and I'm looking at it now. If it works as described it should be very easy to account for it in an update.

[Graion Dilach]

Can confirm it working. I've hacked one of the Olyvn mods with updating this library to test it.

[subtledoctor]

It seems to list all player-memorizable spells into those .txt files, not just the ones added by Olvyn's function. Or maybe, all unmoded player-usable spells plus all spells added by Olvyn's function (but not spells added by other mods)? Hard to say. A bit annoying because it means I have to filter out duplicates. But not the end of the world, and its heart is in the right place, so I won't complain.

Note, as Graion mentioned, MESpells has not yet been updated to use the new version of the spell-adding function. So to make this work, you will have to manually copy the "ClassSpellTool.tpa" file and the contents of the "no_overwrite" folder from the ClassSpellTool folder to the MESpells folder. (And, of course, wait for the next version of 5E Casting.)

[Graion Dilach]

It isn't that hard to say. ClassSpellTool.TPA L2-69 is the initialization and it's a fairly dumb one (wizard detection only goes up to 39, but priest detection goes up to 59).

Basically, it collects the available basegame spells during the first ClassSpellTool spell installation but only adds the ClassSpellTool spells after it.

It's not a complaint on my side either thoough, this is way more manageable than how it looked prior.

Edited February 9, 2023 by Graion Dilach