Ascalon's Questpack: Discussion and Bug Report Thread

[Lurker]

@jastey A question and perhaps small bug report for "A Feast for the Gnolls". Same setup/environment/other circumstances like in my recent bgqe bug report.

I have killed the ghost at the waterfall in Dryad Falls, because 3000 XP + keeping the ring was too good to be good. When I report back to Aaron and tell him I had to kill his dead ex (again), he's like "Oh my.", and that's it. The quest doesn't resolve, Aaron just keeps greeting back when talked to again.

If I instead hand over the ring to the ghost, the quest resolves, the ghost dissolves.

I kind of get the impression that if modders don't like to play evil, that path just doesn't get enough attention.

(...and have to admit, this early in the story, evil usually just feels mean. But that's also the issue with the base game(s), and also other RPGs in general.)

Edited October 2, 2023 by Lurker

[jastey]

I tried to see in the files how the quest should resolve in this case but Ascalon's quets are not easy to follow by reading the script because he uses a different method to trigger events than I would. I'd need more detailed infos: What exactly did you tell Aaron and what did he answer?

What you reported sounds more like a bug / oversight, of course the quest should resolve in this case. Killing the ghost is there as an option and is already considered, at least for some quest paths.

With that and the fact that I spent weeks+ to design evil paths for all bgqe quests (where it makes sense because they are good in nature) I think it's uncalled for you address the general lamentation about not-so-fleshed-out evil quest paths at me, though. *pout*

[Lurker]

3 hours ago, jastey said:

With that and the fact that I spent weeks+ to design evil paths for all bgqe quests (where it makes sense because they are good in nature) I think it's uncalled for you address the general lamentation about not-so-fleshed-out evil quest paths at me, though. *pout*

I didn't address you at all in those last two paragraphs. Those are meant in a more generalized way, based purely on gut feeling, and eased by use of a winking smiley. That was at least the intended way that I was trying to express myself... *sigh*

Now I don't know if you are a cute pouter, or an angry pouter, but since I didn't intend to be confrontational, I'd like to explicitly compliment you for addressing the issue which I expressed in my generalized statement (providing an evil path).

I wouldn't make the effort to report bugs or even minor issues if I wasn't interested in improving the quality of a mod. And I sometimes like (or at least try) to express myself in a way that's supposed to be entertaining, but perhaps I'm overestimating my grasp on the English language to get this right. Sorry. *sad face*

Please consider perhaps adjusting your way how you want to interpret a bug report? Like "If in doubt, think of it in the most positive way."

While modders (disclaimer: generalized statement ) do provide a service for players, and without a doubt invest more time and work while creating mods compared to players "just consuming them", please don't underestimate the time and effort it takes for players like me to playtest them (identifying which mod I'm currently dealing with; trying out different ways to address the problem; not knowing how to do that in the first place because I don't have a script that explains what and when things should happen etc.).

From a players point of view, all those things are disrupting the gameplay experience, and can sum up to even drain the will to even continue playing on in the worst case. When I got back into BG early this year, I wanted to play the game; I'll better not think about all of the time I spent in setting up the game, identifying bugs and incompatibilities, signing up here, trying to provide useful feedback... I hope you get the picture.

(tl;dr) We're all friends here, together in the same boat.

4 hours ago, jastey said:

What exactly did you tell Aaron and what did he answer?

What you reported sounds more like a bug / oversight, of course the quest should resolve in this case. Killing the ghost is there as an option and is already considered, at least for some quest paths.

When I'm back at my gaming machine, I'll try to give you a bit more feedback.

[Lurker]

5 hours ago, jastey said:

With that and the fact that I spent weeks+ to design evil paths for all bgqe quests (where it makes sense because they are good in nature)

 I was pleasantly surprised when the Family Treasure Quest more or less auto-resolved by passing by the area again, after keeping the necklace. That was one instance where I'd already given up on the quest to provide an evil path. If that's on you, I'd like to express my gratitude.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Lurker

[jastey]

I was tongue-in-cheek. I mean, you are correct in so far as quest paths that do not occur to the modder will not be as fleshed out or even tested as the other ones. Can be evil paths, can be different order how to do things.

I am proud about the evil solutions of the bgqe quests, thank you for the feedback.

The time it takes to do bug reports is highly appreciated. For some players, I would hope they'd not underestimate the time and effort it takes to create the new content the mods provide, though. And there is no QA section I can run the mods by - there will always be bugs in them no matter how much I playtest. It's utterly frustrating.

If you would give me more details to what Aaron's last lines were and what journal entries you are still stuck with I'd be grateful and it would increase probability I'll fix this for the next release. I'll add this to my notes anyway.

 

[Lurker]

23 hours ago, jastey said:

If you would give me more details to what Aaron's last lines were and what journal entries you are still stuck with I'd be grateful and it would increase probability I'll fix this for the next release.

Will do later; also need to check how far back I've saved games available.

In the meanwhile, need to get David Warner's voice out of my head when thinking about BG+modding.

Quote

You will suffer. YOU WILL ALL SUFFER!

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by Lurker

[jastey]

Hahaha! - Fits nicely, though. *Bites into her desk trying to debug a 5 second-long cutscene*

[Lurker]

Quote

It is time for more... experiments.

 

Last(?) conversation with Aaron:

Aaron: "Hello, <charname>."

1: "I'm afraid we have to talk about Marina, Aaron. Marina was a ghost. We had to destroy her."

2: "We just wanted to see how you fare." [Choosing this just closes the dialog, leaving option 1 available.]

Aaron [responding to 2]: "Destroyed? Oh no... my poor Marina. (sobs)" [Continue]

Aaron [continued]: "I only hope she did not have to suffer for too long." [End Dialogue]

When next talking to Aaron:

Aaron: "Hello, <charname>." [End Dialogue]

 

The journal entry for "A failed picnic" doesn't change after this. I had (and still have) three entries up to this point (newest to oldest, abbreviated):

• A Ghost in the Cloudpeaks
  • Aaron gave us the solution. [...]
• A Ghost in the Cloudpeaks?
  • Some farmers report to have seen [...]
• Mrs. Brunnstein in Nashkel misses her Son
  • I agreed to look for Aaron [...]

Edited October 4, 2023 by Lurker

[Lurker]

From an older save, altered steps:

• kill the ghost
• rescue Aaron
• get the ring
• keep the ring as payment
• travel back to Nashkel,
  • tell Aaron "I'm afraid it's even worse, Aaron. Marina was a ghost. We had to destroy her." and
  • "Bah, What a meagre trumpery."

Same outcome as above, with only one less journal entry.

[Lurker]

And while I'm at it, the dialog with the ghost could also get some attention.

When talking with the ghost the first time, but already knowing the backstory, there's an additional option

• (4 or 5; depends if ring is in inventory, which adds an option on top):  "Marina? Is it you?"

that vanishes after it was selected once, but comes back when returning with the ring after having rescued Aaron, which doesn't make sense. Also, most options don't make much sense after having talked with the ghost at least once.

The quest immediately resolves when choosing "I've got something for you." and having the ring in the inventory. So no need to talk with Aaron afterwards; who also immediately recognizes that "You set her spirit to rest. [...]" when approached next. So he seems to have become a diviner between visits?

 

I'll stop now. To be honest, I didn't care much for the quest, but became a bit obsessed when playing around with the options, and have a general dislike for unresolved quests in the journal. So, if this helps to improve the mod for others players and later playthroughs, all for the better.

(*dreading to continue, since huge modded game, and this being an early quest*)

Edited October 4, 2023 by Lurker

[jastey]

@Lurker thank you very much for the detailed report and suggestions! I'll revise this when I'll work on the mod next time.

50 minutes ago, Lurker said:

So no need to talk with Aaron afterwards; who also immediately recognizes that "You set her spirit to rest. [...]" when approached next. So he seems to have become a diviner between visits?

To be fair, it's not an uncommon theme in the game. Bjornin knows when you killed the half-ogres without telling him, for example.

(It also simplifies quest paths by a magnitude if not all options have to be considered in the dialogues. You ran into enough problems already regarding complex dialogues as it is..)

[Lurker]

12 minutes ago, jastey said:

To be fair, it's not an uncommon theme in the game.

Of course you're right. I was just in nitpicking mode, a side effect of bug hunting, I guess.

[Lurker]

I don't know why I didn't notice this sooner, but the "Aaron Brunnstein" that stands near the Sawmill in the south of Nashkel is shown as "Uninjured". His selection circle has the usual color for neutral NPCs.

[jastey]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

I don't know why I didn't notice this sooner, but the "Aaron Brunnstein" that stands near the Sawmill in the south of Nashkel is shown as "Uninjured". His selection circle has the usual color for neutral NPCs.

In what context are you posting this? Because this sounds good imho.

[Lurker]

40 minutes ago, jastey said:

In what context are you posting this? Because this sounds good imho.

Health status. "Uninjured" / health status is normally only shown for hostile or charmed creatures, but not party members or other NPCs. So Aaron is like a neutral combatant.