[IWDEE] Yxunomei encounter may break plot progression

[argent77]

It is possible that the Yxunomei encounter will lock you out from further plot progression, even in the literal sense.

This can happen if you try to be "clever" and place most party members further away from the boss chamber, and then approach Yxunomei with one of your characters.

When the battle begins, the door to the last segment of the serpentine passage is closed and locked by script, and does not open until Yxunomei is dead. The door cannot be unlocked by force, skill or spell. There is also no key for the door. If the character inside the closed area dies, or is otherwise unable to defeat Yxunomei, it is impossible to advance the plot without cheating.

This is not strictly a bug, but rather a loophole in the boss encounter design. However, I still think it should be fixed it in the EEFP.

Thoughts?

[polytope]

20 hours ago, argent77 said:

the door to the last segment of the serpentine passage is closed and locked by script, and does not open until Yxunomei is dead. The door cannot be unlocked by force, skill or spell. There is also no key for the door. If the character inside the closed area dies, or is otherwise unable to defeat Yxunomei, it is impossible to advance the plot without cheating.

Off the top of my head I can think of only three ways to resolve it without a major redesign of the encounter outside fixpack scope:

• A cutscene that moves the party into her room (would interact kinda weirdly with the extra Yuan-Ti spawns behind you).
• The door unlocking by script if Yxunomei sees no party members and at least one is dead (potentially abusable)
• Automatic game over if Yxunomei has killed at least one party member and can't see any others (probably not a good idea, likely to be a worse bug in its own right)

[argent77]

1 hour ago, polytope said:

Off the top of my head I can think of only three ways to resolve it without a major redesign of the encounter outside fixpack scope:

• A cutscene that moves the party into her room (would interact kinda weirdly with the extra Yuan-Ti spawns behind you).
• The door unlocking by script if Yxunomei sees no party members and at least one is dead (potentially abusable)
• Automatic game over if Yxunomei has killed at least one party member and can't see any others (probably not a good idea, likely to be a worse bug in its own right)

Yes, the fix should not be too intrusive.

The cutscene option sounds promising, as the same is already done for the Luremaster scene in the castle dungeon. It would probably interfere with your strategy to defeat Yxunomei though. Moreover, it's difficult to decide the right placement of the party since the room is heavily trapped. I agree that the other two options have the potential for abuse.

I can think of two more options:

1. Make the door unlockable by the party. That's easily doable in a fixpack, but may impact the encounter design negatively. After all, the whole point of the unlockable door is to limit your tactical options.
2. Unlock the door automatically after a span of time (maybe one or two turns.) This option would be even less intrusive, since it doesn't change the original encounter, unless you intentionally prolong combat.

 

[Acifer]

I could suggest another option: the door should only be able to be opened from the outside. If the whole party is in the room, there is no way out. But if a party member is waiting outside, there is still the possibility to open the door. This doesn't prevent cheesy tactics, but it could work well from a role-playing perspective.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Acifer

[argent77]

33 minutes ago, Acifer said:

I could suggest another option: the door should only be able to be opened from the outside. If the whole party is in the room, there is no way out. But if a party member is waiting outside, there is still the possibility to open the door. This doesn't prevent cheesy tactics, but it could work well from a role-playing perspective.

That's an intriguing option. Realization would be a challenge though. I can think of two ways: 1) Adding a trigger region in front of the door (outside) to unlock it when someone steps on the trigger. 2) Adding more "impeded cell blocks" on the inside, so that party members cannot even reach the door. The latter is more difficult to implement and could be prone to engine quirks though.

[Acifer]

32 minutes ago, argent77 said:

Realization would be a challenge though.

Moving the coordinates of the "Close location" (offsets b980 and b982 in NI) to a point "outside" the chamber should be sufficient. Maybe move the "Open location" a little bit more far away from the door, too. That should make the opening point of the door unreachable if you're inside the room.

[argent77]

2 hours ago, Acifer said:

Moving the coordinates of the "Close location" (offsets b980 and b982 in NI) to a point "outside" the chamber should be sufficient. Maybe move the "Open location" a little bit more far away from the door, too. That should make the opening point of the door unreachable if you're inside the room.

Yes, that works too. It's actually door "AR4005Door12" that needs fixing though, where you'd have to update the "Open location" instead. This option is still abusable, since you can immediately open the door if you position your party right.

[subtledoctor]

5 hours ago, Acifer said:

I could suggest another option: the door should only be able to be opened from the outside. If the whole party is in the room, there is no way out. But if a party member is waiting outside, there is still the possibility to open the door. This doesn't prevent cheesy tactics, but it could work well from a role-playing perspective.

Came here to say this. The door is meant to prevent the party moving backwards; it is not meant to stop the party from progressing toward Yxunomei.

5 hours ago, argent77 said:

Realization would be a challenge though.

Just spawn a key in one of the earlier rooms. EDIT - or yeah, move the "open door" area to the outside of the locked room. Acifer's idea is better then making a key.

...

Alternatively: just put the locked door on a timer. When you trigger it, it shuts behind you and cannot be opened for 60 or 120 seconds. If only one party member is there, they may well get mauled in that time. The way of cheesing it here is I guess to go invisible and wait out the timer, but I don't see any problem with scripting Yxunomei or the other spellcasters to cast See Invisible or True Seeing. I mean aside from inherent at-will tanar'ri abilities, she has the Heartstone Gem which has powerful divination magic.

Ultimately, any answer to this will increase the player's options for using different/cheesy tactics, which the dev intent is clearly designed to prevent. The question is whether the removing the prospect of a situation that stops all progress in the game is worth making changes contrary to that intent. I say yes; but I suspect a few who carry much weight around here will disagree with me.

Edited August 17, 2022 by subtledoctor

[argent77]

23 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Alternatively: just put the locked door on a timer. When you trigger it, it shuts behind you and cannot be opened for 60 or 120 seconds.

I'm in favor of that option, too. It makes the least changes to the original encounter and merely requires an update of the door script. Yes, it can also be abused, but probably not without sacrificing a party member or two.

[CamDawg]

My first thought was just to give it a timer, so I'm glad to see that's where the discussion went. The door will now open when Yxunomei is dead, or after 10 rounds (60 seconds) have expired. Committed.

[argent77]

55 minutes ago, CamDawg said:

My first thought was just to give it a timer, so I'm glad to see that's where the discussion went. The door will now open when Yxunomei is dead, or after 10 rounds (60 seconds) have expired. Committed.

The current implemention behaves a little bit weird. The door does indeed open after 10 rounds, but closes again at the next script pass. That's barely enough time for a single character to slip through. It'll open and close again after another 10 rounds, and so on.

Edit: It might have to do with the LOCALS used in the script (see here).

Edited August 17, 2022 by argent77

[CamDawg]

Oh derp, the very next thing on my to-do list. I'll get it sorted.

[CamDawg]

And very late, but fixed as part of a broader scope fix.