Thalantyr Item Upgrade and "Wear Multiple Protection Items"

[Mordekaie]

An Issue has been reported in Thalantyr Item Upgrade Github with  the component "Wear Multiple Protection Items".

Does anyone know if this "issue" is relevant or has been adressed in the latest versions of Tweak Anthology ?

 

https://github.com/CrevsDaak/thalan/issues/6

[jmerry]

The Tweaks Anthology component adds abilities to protection items; specifically, they can replace themselves with versions that lack some of their abilities but can be used together with enchanted armor. Naturally, any dialogue that uses protection items as recipe fodder would have to update its dialogue to account for these new versions of the protection items. Tweaks Anthology does this for Cespenar's recipe involving the +2 cloak of protection, but not for any mod-added recipes.

Creating new items this way can't be avoided; you can't morph items' stats in the middle of a game. The options here are:

- Have one mod explicitly support the other by updating the dialogue triggers to account for the new items if both mods are present.

- Use those abilities to revert back to the original form of the items before using them in the recipe. After all, the original version of the protection items is still present and accessible.

[Mordekaie]

Thanks for the clarification.

Just for confirmation : if nothing is done to correct the issue, the only problem will be that some recipes/upgrades from thalantyr Item Upgrade won't be possible i guess ?

[jmerry]

They will be possible - you just might have to use the item abilities to make them work. The protection items initially come in their original form, and you can switch them back to that form whenever you want.

[Mordekaie]

32 minutes ago, jmerry said:

They will be possible - you just might have to use the item abilities to make them work. The protection items initially come in their original form, and you can switch them back to that form whenever you want.

With Near Infinity ?

 

[jmerry]

... Oh. I haven't used the component, and I missed something. Two new versions of each protection item get created; the "no AC bonus" version, and a "no lore required to ID" version. Once you use the switching ability once to get the "no AC bonus" protection item, you can only switch back and forth between it and the "no lore required to ID" version.

So, for the sake of better compatibility with mods that use protection items as ingredients, can we avoid the need for a no-lore version? Not with opcode 122 item creation; only script actions can set flags like "identified" when creating items.

All right, this is a thorny one. One of the mods definitely needs to be updated with an explicit compatibility patch if those recipes are to work properly with the combination. As they are currently, the recipes are only usable if the items being used as ingredients haven't ever had their mode switch used.

[Graion Dilach]

Keep in mind that everything jmerry's saying only apply to the PnP restrictions variant. The other two subcomponent are rock-solid regarding compatibility and do not touch the items themselves.

[Mordekaie]

10 minutes ago, Graion Dilach said:

Keep in mind that everything jmerry's saying only apply to the PnP restrictions variant. The other two subcomponent are rock-solid regarding compatibility and do not touch the items themselves.

Oh ! The component "Wear Multiple Protection Items" comes with 3 options : PnP restrictions / No restrictions / Allow Armor plus one protection item.

So we would only need a patch for the "PnP restrictions" option.

[CamDawg]

Yeah, it's a bit of a PITA--and I know because I had to account for all of the alternatives for Item Upgrade. Note also that the various 2H weapon components (bastard swords, katanas, and axes) also have this issue where items get cloned into new files. Items in the base game get fixed, known item conversions (PnP, bastard swords, katanas, axes); if it's an item from a mod they'll start using the next available slot. So if a formula looks for a Ring of Protecion +1 (aka Ring of Princes) ring06, its alternative incarnations are cdpp11 and c!pp11.

[subtledoctor]

On 11/1/2022 at 3:05 PM, jmerry said:

One of the mods definitely needs to be updated with an explicit compatibility patch if those recipes are to work properly with the combination.

Seems to me the obvious thing to do is for a mod like Thalantyr's or Item Upgrade to update its recipes to include extant variations on items in them.

Of course the problem is, nobody is likely to actually do that, if the mod is not actively maintained.

On 11/1/2022 at 3:05 PM, jmerry said:

can we avoid the need for a no-lore version? Not with opcode 122 item creation; only script actions can set flags like "identified" when creating items

I mean, you could re-code the way the mod works. Can't items trigger dialogues directly without the need for invisible creature intermediaries? Could use the item ability to start a dialogue that asks "change to the armor-compatible version?" and then handle the item replacement and item identification by script actions in the .DLG. Bonus: maybe this could actually equip the item being added? (I hate how e.g. changing a bastard sword to be 2-handed moves it out of my weapon slot.)

But, that would basically be making a whole new mod.

[StummvonBordwehr]

The mod is maintained by @CrevsDaak , but I dont think he has the time to maintain it at the moment….
 

Btw. The mod used to work with the “no restrictions” from “wear mulitiple protection items”.

[CamDawg]

25 minutes ago, StummvonBordwehr said:

Btw. The mod used to work with the “no restrictions” from “wear mulitiple protection items”.

Still does, since the 'no restrictions' option doesn't modify anything that would impact it.

[CamDawg]

3 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Seems to me the obvious thing to do is for a mod like Thalantyr's or Item Upgrade to update its recipes to include extant variations on items in them.

I should point out that Item Upgrade made this change in 2013.