The Crucible - Assistance Requested

[morpheus562]

This mod aims to provide a more climatic ending to Throne of Bhaal by adding a final assault into Bhaal's realm. Upon closing their pocket plane, the main character will find themself pulled into Gehenna where they will need to reach Bhaal's kingdom by fighting through local denizens and the forces of Amelyssan the Blackhearted until they can finally reach Bhaal's throne. I want this to bridge the difficulty gap between the main game and the final Ascension difficulty fight while giving the player one last opportunity to flex their character's muscle, might, and magic.

This is in early early development, and I am still piecing ideas together for what this will look like. I am in need of assistance regarding area files. There are a number that I would like to take from PST: EE, and I am unsure how the process goes with transferring from one game to the other. If anyone is skilled in updating area files to create new areas, and knowledge of how to transfer from one game to another, I would be incredibly grateful to pick your brain and see how it is done.

There are other things I have questions on and will be asking assistance for later. Right now I want to be able to get an area set aside for the player to traverse, and I can build out story elements, battles, triggers, mini-quests, etc. later once I get the groundwork laid.

Thank you!

[subtledoctor]

Sounds cool! But, I know nothing about area files.

The only mod I know of off the top of my head that uses areas from PST is... Searileth. Setting aside the mod's "romance" content, maybe you could learn something from how it installs the areas?

Edited February 27, 2023 by subtledoctor

[morpheus562]

3 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Sounds cool! But, I know nothing about area files.

The only mod I know of off the top of my head that uses areas from PST is... Searileth. Setting aside the mod's "romance" content, maybe you could learn something from how it installs the areas?

Thank you, I'll take a look!

One of my concerns going off other mods is that it shows the end state for area files, not how to alter the original PST/IWD area files to get to that end state. Seeing the end state will definitely be a huge help, so maybe I am simply overthinking it and it is easier than it initially looks.

[Graion Dilach]

Which area(s) would be the goal?

If you'd only copy-paste the areas, the only problematic step I can think of suddenly is the TIS-PVRZ filename derivation rule explained in the TIS file format notes - https://gibberlings3.github.io/iesdp/file_formats/ie_formats/tis_v1.htm -because I'm not sure how crowded the M section is. You can ofcourse reindex both the TIS and the PVRZ manually but you've got covered for this one:

IESDP's ARE file format definition includes a great summary of what files are needed and I'd start from there. The complications start if you intend to edit the artwork and not just pull and push pretty much, I thiink that needs to involve DLTCEP and can't be done with NI alone. If you also intend to downscale the artwork from PST's scale to other IE scale (which would be IIRC 83%), I fear you will need to rebuild the overlays outright because of tile alignment.

I won't be back on Discord 'til Wednersday I think, but sure I'll be available to help.

 

[morpheus562]

7 minutes ago, Graion Dilach said:

Which area(s) would be the goal?

If you'd only copy-paste the areas, the only problematic step I can think of suddenly is the TIS-PVRZ filename derivation rule explained in the TIS file format notes - https://gibberlings3.github.io/iesdp/file_formats/ie_formats/tis_v1.htm -because I'm not sure how crowded the M section is. You can ofcourse reindex both the TIS and the PVRZ manually but you've got covered for this one:

IESDP's ARE file format definition includes a great summary of what files are needed and I'd start from there. The complications start if you intend to edit the artwork and not just pull and push pretty much, I thiink that needs to involve DLTCEP and can't be done with NI alone. If you also intend to downscale the artwork from PST's scale to other IE scale (which would be IIRC 83%), I fear you will need to rebuild the overlays outright because of tile alignment.

I won't be back on Discord 'til Wednersday I think, but sure I'll be available to help.

 

I don't want to change the artwork, but I do intend to update triggers, traps, and maybe add new entrances/exits. I did not know I would need to update the IE scale from PST to BG, so that is another complication I will have to address. I'll dig into what you linked, thank you!

Right now, I want to bring AR1001 and AR1000 from PST over. This will be the backdrop for Gehenna and where the player will start. Once I can get my head wrapped around how to bring those to life, I can bring in the other pieces to more thoroughly flesh out this finale.

Edited February 27, 2023 by morpheus562

[Endarire]

Argent77 made Test Your Mettle! for EET which includes the PS:T Modron Maze.

Lava del Vortel has made many area mods, such as Alabaster Sands.  I'm unsure what PS:T graphics he used, if any.

Roberciik has been maintaining Region of Terror which has new areas and is unlikely to have any PS:T graphics.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Endarire

[Gorionar]

I want to advise the author of the mod to find areas for the game from a 3d designer or from other game resources. Because the locations from the PST, IWD and BG games put up certain barriers for the modder's ideas. Or combine area infinity game them in a 2D editor and create something new that will help the modder to realize the idea of the mod.

[morpheus562]

55 minutes ago, Gorionar said:

I want to advise the author of the mod to find areas for the game from a 3d designer or from other game resources. Because the locations from the PST, IWD and BG games put up certain barriers for the modder's ideas. Or combine area infinity game them in a 2D editor and create something new that will help the modder to realize the idea of the mod.

I'm not exactly sure what you are suggesting here. I personally do not feel like I would be limited by using existing resources from PST: EE and IWD: EE. I don't believe there are many instances of PST areas in BG, and I believe it will be a new experience for many players, myself included. 

[Endarire]

@Gorionar
The Planar Sphere in BG2 already acts as a plane traveling device, and Planescape involves the planes beyond the material.  Argent77's Test Your Mettle! mod as mentioned above is the PS:T Modron Maze ported to EET.

There are some extraplanar adventures throughout EET in vanilla and more in mods, but they're generally rare compared to vanilla, and mostly in BG2.

(This is also a roundabout way of agreeing with Morpheus in this case.)

[Gorionar]

8 hours ago, morpheus562 said:

I'm not exactly sure what you are suggesting here. I personally do not feel like I would be limited by using existing resources from PST: EE and IWD: EE. I don't believe there are many instances of PST areas in BG, and I believe it will be a new experience for many players, myself included. 

I just want to say that a modder often limits himself to game BG, PST and IWD area. Because of this, the modder cannot implement all his ideas.

[polytope]

It's a good idea to add more content to Throne of Bhaal, the endgame feels kinda rushed and you have little opportunity to actually use the late game items you acquire from defeating the two enclaves.

I have little experience in area design, the only thing I can contribute to this topic is that you can make a reused area look quite different simply by editing the lightmap (AR____LM.bmp) to give new hues and adding some static animations, the tiles themselves are a pain to edit and put back together.

[subtledoctor]

Honestly I would completely tear TOB apart if I had my druthers, and re-use the assets with a completely rewritten story. Or fold it into the last chapter of SoA and keep the focus on Irenicus. Or make Watcher’s Keep Central to it and all the other content something to do with Demogorgon’s plan to escape. Anything beside the current Highlander rip-off that doesn’t even abide by its own Highlander rules and instead has a non-Bhaalspawn step in and steal the finale.

But! In the absence of that, adding a bit more meat to its bones sounds fine.

[morpheus562]

I had a nice message with @argent77 where it provided great assistance in understanding the scope for updating and editing area files. It's a lot. This is a mod idea that I would love to see to completion, but it is going to take time. Lots of time. I appreciate the interest received, and I hope this is something I can deliver on someday.

[polytope]

On 2/28/2023 at 8:31 PM, subtledoctor said:

Anything beside the current Highlander rip-off that doesn’t even abide by its own Highlander rules and instead has a non-Bhaalspawn step in and steal the finale.

On consideration, one of the things which has always annoyed me was having to fight all the Bhaalspawn again almost immediately after defeating them the first time if you play with Ascension (and without Ascension is still much too easy on repeat plays even with SCS), along with Irenicus twice, or thrice if you're good aligned and meet him in the pocket plane. Oh and possibly Sarevok too, for the third or fourth time. It felt like one of those old arcade games which do that to you and was out of line with the rest of the saga.

I would like to see a mod to somehow fill in the time between the encounters with the main antagonists, who keep coming back.