[Idea] Fun with weapon proficiencies

[CamDawg]

Having trained with katanas, they are most certainly not best grouped with any straight swords. Understanding and using the curvature of the blade is critical in defense and the cutting motions are very different. Thrusting attacks are uncommon at best--the blades aren't balanced for it, generally don't have bloodlets, and a curved blade is not your best choice of shape. Most of the thrusts we've learned are either slashes disguised as a thrust (a thrust aimed to cut the side of the neck, for example) or involve turning the blade over in a backhand grip and "chiselling" with the point at the center of mass.

 

Though the lengths and weights vary, a wakizashi is very similar to a katana in the theory and training behind it because it is designed as a smaller katana. Katanas are very difficult to wield indoors due to their lengths, which is why a wakizashi was designed--enemies quickly realized that katana wielders were easily ambushed inside. (As an aside, the wakizashi as a second blade is a mark of respect because it means that you were armed indoors, i.e. you were trusted to be armed when meeting your lord. Lessers without the second balde essentially met their masters unarmed.) You would never use them in tandem in real life, yes, primarily because the strength and dexterity to effectively wield a katana one-handed is ridiculous. Like a katana, the curvature and usage of a wakizashi is entirely different from straight blades, and even more so in the case of short swords (which are primarily thrusting weapons).

[Drew]

Having trained with katanas, they are most certainly not best grouped with any straight swords. Understanding and using the curvature of the blade is critical in defense and the cutting motions are very different. Thrusting attacks are uncommon at best--the blades aren't balanced for it, generally don't have bloodlets, and a curved blade is not your best choice of shape. Most of the thrusts we've learned are either slashes disguised as a thrust (a thrust aimed to cut the side of the neck, for example) or involve turning the blade over in a backhand grip and "chiselling" with the point at the center of mass.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I stand corrected. My understanding, however, is that a long sword or bastard sword (as per 2e rules) isn't necessarily straight and/or double edged. Also the gladius, a slashing weapon, is also considered a short sword. (Just another example of 2e weapon classifications being too general in some cases and too specific in others) I have to agree that a straight sword is wielded entirely differently than a curved one, and I can definitely live with katanas and wakizashis being grouped together since the proficiencies available to play with are somewhat limited. You didn't mention the ninjato in your argument, though. Any thoughts about that?

[CamDawg]

I have no clue about ninja-tos, and your post surprised me--I had no idea they were that long, which just adds to my confusion.

[Drew]

If you are already putting the wakizashis and katanas together because the techniques used to wield them are roughly the same then you should probably put ninjatos there too. The weapon feels like a katana, just a bit lighter. It was designed to give its user a speed advantage over the katana for hit and run tactics without compromising range overly much. It really can't be wielded like a straight sword because of how it is balanced and it still has a slight curve. It is still meant to be wielded 2 handed like the katana, although using it in 1 hand is somewhat easier. (but still a really stupid idea ) It also fits the "japanese swords" motif quite nicely that way.

[BigRob]

Could be a problem with thieves getting access to them in that case.

 

As it's a straight sword and a medium sort of size, ninja-tos could be thrown in with long swords. They are meant to be thief weapons, and thieves have access to that proficiency already. Or would thieves be able to access the proficiency and just not use the heavier blades (as per the existing restrictions)?

[CamDawg]

Yeah, this is just proficiency changes only. No weapons will be usable to classes that can not already use them.

[Fallen_Demon]

Would it make any difference?  She can't use ninja-tos, so it wouldn't change anything for her to be proficiently not wielding them instead of nonproficiently not wielding them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It wouldn't look very good if she visually had proficenies in weapons she couldn't use, but I wasn't so much concerned with her having ninja-to proficencies as being set back in the club ones. Also, while I mentioned Jaheira as an example because I remembered what weapons she's proficent in off hand I'd be more concerned with an enemy who suddenly has no skill in the only weapon that their using.

 

But if patching it easy it doesn't matter anyway.

 

edit:

@Katanas and Wakizashi: I knew someone who took kendo that was taught the wakizashi would be kept sheathed and used for a kill when the big blades got locked. Don't know how valid that is.

[Kish]

Oh, yes, if ninja-tos are their own category Jaheira shouldn't be proficient with them. I was thinking they were being lumped with something else, still.

[NiGHTMARE]

I have no clue about ninja-tos, and your post surprised me--I had no idea they were that long, which just adds to my confusion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In real life, "ninja-to" (or "ninja sword") is the name for a group of weapons (i.e. any sword that a ninja would use), rather than one specific weapon. As is often the case, the idea of a ninja-to being a single weapon was made popular by Hollywood, and was based on a Japanese sword first invented during World War 2. The "Hollywood sword" is much like the Katana, only somewhat straighter. It has become so mainstream, that even some modern day martial arts classes train with it and call it the ninja-to.

 

Since the Ninja's primary role was as a spy, not some Navy SEAL-esque infilitration unit as made popular by the movies, he much preffered small, easily concealed weaponry such as the shuriken (which could take many forms besides the infamous star-shape), a caltrop-like weapon called the makibishi (which was often coated with poison), smoke bombs, handclaws, etc. When they were not on a spying mission, or if the mission required them to carry a sword, most Ninjas wielded wakizashis or katanas or, if they were of the Samurai class, both.

[jester]

I think jesters should get an extra proficiency point at creation in frying pan. ok, perhaps acrobats too as they specialise in throwing stuff around.

[Eon Blue Apocalypse]

Mayhaps you could add cutlasses to the scimitar profiency?

[jester]

Isn't that the very same thing?

 

cut·lass also cut·las

 

1. A short heavy sword with a curved single-edged blade, once used as a weapon by sailors.

..

[NiGHTMARE]

A scimitar is curved all the way along the blade, whereas a cutlass only curves at the tip. The completely curved cutlass is yet another Hollywood invention .

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Cutlass.jpeg

 

Anyway, if it's decided to add new weapon types to the Tweak Pack, there are plenty from LoI that I'd be willing to donate (sabres, dirks, kris', gladii, tachis, tantos, rapiers, broadswords, falchions, various polearms, etc) .

[jester]

Don't get me wrong, but apart from a Kris (which is said to hold the soul of its owner) I fail to see the usefullness of adding these weapons from a gamer's perspective. Wouldn't it fall into the same category as the much lamented ubiquity of katanas far, far away from Kara-Tur?

 

I would love to have a naginata btw.

[NiGHTMARE]

Only the tachi and tanto would be from far away. I'd expect all the others to be fairly common in Amn, especially cutlasses, sabres and some of the polearms.