Paladins falling, but not to Evil

[Andyr]

The classic example of a fallen Paladin seems to be one who has turned to Evil.

 

I am trying to think of situations which could lead a Paladin to fall in the other direction--ones that would mean they lose their status as a result of becoming NG or CG in alignment. However, I cannot think of that many situations which would warrant a shift that way. Such as, perhaps, lying to protect some perceived greater good. Is anyone feeling imaginative? Any thoughts?

[Sir Alexander]

A paladin falling in lawful neutral alignement seems realistic : paladins are lawful warriors to respective divinity.

 

Why not ?

[Andyr]

I am specifically after scenarios that mean the Paladin, while still Good, is no longer Lawful.

[Sir Alexander]

Like a Holy Liberator, a Chaotic good paladin ?

[Andyr]

That doesn't matter. A Neutral Good or Chaotic Good character who used to be a Paladin but is no longer one. So while they might share some ideals with a Holy Liberator, they would not be one.

[icelus]

What about if a paladin learns that his church has become corrupt, and disobeys an order he feels is not-so-good, or something?

[SimDing0]

Yes. Disillusion with the tenets of the Order would probably be a prime scenario. Not neccessarily witnessing corruption, but simply coming to the realization that evil can be more effectively fought outside the boundaries of lawfulness.

[BigRob]

A specific scenario might be that the Paladin releases or protects a person who is guilty of some crime, because the paladin knows that more good will come of the person's freedom than through their punishment.

[jester]

Well, but I always thought that the falling stems from disobeying their gods and not their human counterparts. So disobeying the order only makes you fall, if they are right and you are not in the eyes of your god.

[Drew]

Maybe it just occured to the Paladin that the lawful path is not always the best one. There are lots of reasons a Paladin might become unlawful. It could just slowly dawn on the Paladin that his straight jackeded ethos was actually stopping him from doing as much good as he otherwise could (thus he becomes neutral good) or he might slowly come to see the importance of individual freedom in a new light (and he becomes chaotic). I don't think a catastrophic event is needed. In my experience, people don't change their nature over night. Such change may or may not be triggered by some grand event, but big changes in one's world view of are generally the product of time and life experience. A Paladin who leaded a more or less cloistered life is quite likely to change some of his viewpoints on the nature and purpose of law in his travels. I think it would be quite common for such sheltered people to have radical shifts in their perspective upon encountering the real world.

[Guest notasophist]

what about Keldorn's dilemma with an adulterous wife? He mentioned that the laws dictates him to turn her in and have her hanged (or something like that)?

 

I would imagine that is an instance which a paladin may choose forgiveness (morally good, as far as i know) over law. Thus technically this choice can be considered unlawful.

[NiGHTMARE]

I think there needs to be a distinction between chosing not to enforce a law, and chosing not to obey a law.

[Guest notasophist]

I think there needs to be a distinction between chosing not to enforce a law, and chosing not to obey a law.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, i agree there is a difference. However, I believe chosing not to enforce a law is still unlawful -- in the instance of a corrupt cop or a compassionate paladin.

 

Then again, just everyone has their own idea of lawful/chaotic. I believe that, fundamentally, a lawful good person cannot exist in an evil political system...

[BigRob]

what about Keldorn's dilemma with an adulterous wife? He mentioned that the laws dictates him to turn her in and have her hanged (or something like that)?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This probably comes back to godly interpretation of the law and whose law takes precedence. As Keldorn is the one who has been wronged (in the legal sense), by forgiving his wife, Keldorn removes the wrong and thus his duty as a paladin of Torm to right it. Amnian law evidently doesn't recognise this, but by Torm's laws of competing duty, Keldorn has done the right and lawful thing.

[Drew]

It's also important to point that if one is both Lawful and Good, these two ideals will inevetabely come into conflict with each other from time to time. Occassionally siding with Good over Law or vice versa isn't likely to change your alignment.