Sharpshooter Thief Kit

[icelus]

So.....what's happening with Andyr's Sniper kit? Anything? How about some User Reviews from (any of) the 6 people who downloaded it? 

Where do you see a download count? The download hasn't been in this thread for awhile. It's now available from the main G3 website.

[Andyr]

It's a bit more than 6 now.

 

I haven't done anything. Still open to suggestions.

[Andyr]

I have had some thoughts...

 

- Remove Backstab altogether, but give +1 attack and +1 damage at level 10 or so.

- Replace Called Shot with a Create Ammunition ability, usable once per day which makes either 10 arrows, bolts, bullets or darts (player's choice). Higher levels mean better ammo.

[SixOfSpades]

Create Ammunition is a good call, but it still seems odd to have the Sniper perform an archer-type ability that the Archer cannot. I'd keep the Called Shot. Create Ammo seems to me something more like a quirk of an individual NPC--come to think of it, I once designed a Ninja-Assassin NPC who could create her own Shurikens (Dart proficiency) every day, with the enchantment determined by her level.

 

From your existing Sniper kit, I would remove the Backstab multiplier entirely, allow only 20 Thieving points per level, slow the Called Shot down to be a bit slower than the Ranger Archer's, and grant them +1 to THAC0 and Damage every 5 levels.

[NiGHTMARE]

Create Ammunition is a good call, but it still seems odd to have the Sniper perform an archer-type ability that the Archer cannot. I'd keep the Called Shot. Create Ammo seems to me something more like a quirk of an individual NPC--come to think of it, I once designed a Ninja-Assassin NPC who could create her own Shurikens (Dart proficiency) every day, with the enchantment determined by her level.

 

From your existing Sniper kit, I would remove the Backstab multiplier entirely, allow only 20 Thieving points per level, slow the Called Shot down to be a bit slower than the Ranger Archer's, and grant them +1 to THAC0 and Damage every 5 levels.

Why shouldn't a ranger archer have somewhat different abilities than a thief archer? It makes perfect sense from a roleplaying perspective - a ranger archer uses his skills in the wilderness, to fight against evil and those who'd harm nature. A thief archer operates in an urban area, and uses his skills for more selfish purposes, such as killing the guard who's just about to discover his burglar companion, or even for assassinations if he's more evil inclined.

 

BTW I think "marksman" is a more appropriate name than "sharpshooter" or "sniper". If SixOfpsades' vision of the kit ever get mades, sharpshooter isn't really suitable for that either, since in D&D a sharpshooter is a dwarf fighter who specialises in crossbows.

[SixOfSpades]

Why shouldn't a ranger archer have somewhat different abilities than a thief archer? It makes perfect sense from a roleplaying perspective -  a ranger archer uses his skills in the wilderness, to fight against evil and those who'd harm nature. A thief archer operates in an urban area, and uses his skills for more selfish purposes, such as killing the guard who's just about to discover his burglar companion, or even for assassinations if he's more evil inclined.

Well, I orignally envisioned the kit as a pure crossbreed of the Archer and the Thief, just melting the two together without any additional hoopla thrown in. I would be against Create Ammunition for this reason.

 

Still, the idea does have merit, and I wouldn't really mind the two (or three, if we're going to include Weimer's Fighter Archer) kits having different abilities, provided they were in tune with the base class of the kit. For example, I don't like the Sniper having the Create Ammunition ability because it has nothing to do with any kind of Thievery; there's no reason why a Thief would be more able to create enchanted ammo than a Fighter or Ranger would. (If there were a ranged-specialization kit for a Bard, though, Create Ammo would be perfect.)

 

The problem here is that the existing Called Shot ability isn't really in line with the spirit of the Archer: What would an Archer care about weakening his target's STR or THAC0, not to mention his Save vs. Spells? The only part of Called Shot that seems in character for an Archer is the +2 to damage after Level 16. A better ability would be to make invoking Called Shot grant a +4 damage bonus for the duration, and each hit during that time imposes a +1 AC penalty (cumulative) on the victim. A unique ability for a Thief might be something along the line of having all shots in the next X seconds have a chance to Slow the target, thus enabling the Thief to run away and go into Stealth, the better to choose his next attack. (As the Ranger Archer can Stealth as well, this makes sense for him too.)

 

So, Called Shot isn't perfect, but as long as it's what the Archer gets, I say it should be given to the Sniper as well.

 

BTW I think "marksman" is a more appropriate name than "sharpshooter" or "sniper". If SixOfpsades' vision of the kit ever get mades, sharpshooter isn't really suitable for that either, since in D&D a sharpshooter is a dwarf fighter who specialises in crossbows.

Since "a dwarf fighter who specializes in crossbows" now falls quite neatly under the Generic Archer, I think that frees up the Sharpshooter name for BG use. Besides, since a Thief kit is going to have a much lower ApR than a Fighter or Ranger kit, the Thief should have the name that connotates slower, deliberately placed shots (as opposed to "machine-gun-Mazzy" style).

 

Come to think of it, make the kit should be called the Sniper after all, considering the whole "Stealth around, pick off your target, duck back into Stealth" nature of it. And it also leaves the Sharpshooter and Marksman names free for a Bard kit, if anybody ever decides to make one.

[Andyr]

I'd agree that Sniper is a decent possible alternative name, yeah.

 

I think NiGHTMARE and others have pretty much said everything else.

[NiGHTMARE]

A slightly different version of Called Shot for each class makes sense. Some possibilities:

 

Fighter archer (Bowman)'s Called Shot: +1 to damage at levels 4, 8, 12 and 16

Ranger archer's Called Shot: +1 to range at levels 4, 8, 12 and 16

Thief archer (Sniper)'s Called Shot: +1 to attack roll at levels 4, 8, 12 and 16

Bard archer (Mystic Marksman)'s Called Shot: -1 to target's save vs. spells at levels 4, 8, 12 and 16

 

The fighter archer would simply use his raw strength to increase the damage of the shot; the ranger archer is more used to fighting in wide open spaces, hence he can hit a mark over a longer distance; the thief archer is better at focusing on a specific part of his opponent's body, increasing his chance to score a critical hit; the bard archer can enchant his arrows so they reduce his opponent's ability to block his spells.

 

Alternatively, if a range bonus is not possible to do in the IE, the ranger archer's Called Shot could perhaps increase his rate of fire.

[SixOfSpades]

NiGHTMARE, that setup kicks ass. But I don't think the Ranger Archer's extended range can be implemented--AFAIK, the range is determined by the weapon in use, nothing else (not to mention that the existing range is practically the same as visual range already). As for ApR, I think I'd rather leave that open for any possible Priest archer kit!

For the Ranger Archer, I would have their Called Shot at Level 4 impose a +1 AC penalty to the target for the duration of the spell (10 seconds). At Level 8, the duration of the Called Shot goes up to 12 seconds, at Level 12 it becomes 15 seconds, and at Level 16 it's 18 seconds.

[NiGHTMARE]

I was actually thinking of allowing clerics to use bows, and introducing a few blunt types of arrows for them to use (obviously they still wouldn't be allowed to use the various existing types of arrow).

[SixOfSpades]

For the Ranger Archer, I would have their Called Shot at Level 4 impose a +1 AC penalty to the target for the duration of the spell.

On my way home last night, I came to the conclusion that I'm an idiot. A stacking +1 AC penalty with every hit during a 10 to 18-second period? At 4.5 Apr, that's a potential AC drop of 13 points--enough to turn the Wraith of Wrath into a Gibberling. A (slightly) softer setup follows.

Level 4: +1 bonus to ranged THAC0

Level 8: +1 to Damage

Level 12: +1 penalty to victim's AC vs. Missiles

Level 16: Target's Missile Damage Resistance lowered by 5%

 

Or would it be better, do you think, to instead have the Ranger Archer be able to infuse his Called Shot with the power of nature's Elemental Damage (Fire, Cold, Lightning)? Or should that be left for the Druid?

 

NiGHTMARE, while I can see Priests of some deities using Bows, I don't think they should all be aloowed to run around toting pointy stuff. The selection of Slings and Bullets is quite adequate for any Priest archer kit--and besides, I feel the "9-kit maximum" on Clerics would be better spent on a good selection of gods than in trying to incorporate Warrior-type kits. There are still plenty of Druid slots free, however, and all it would take to incorporate this idea is 2 small changes to the existing Archer of Sylvanus.

[NiGHTMARE]

No, I meant allowing all clerics to use bows. They're allowed to use any weapon as long as it's blunt, which means they're not allowed to fire most types of arrow - but if an arrow were blunt, they should be allowed to fire it.

[Mongoose87]

Those are going to be some wierd arrows with wierd physics.

[Domi]

My problem with Marksman was always that it implies a male kit user. A female thief choosing this kit will sound funny...

[icelus]

My problem with Marksman was always that it implies a male kit user. A female thief choosing this kit will sound funny...

Heh... true, but Marksperson doesn't work, either. Sharpshooter just has a certain ring to it.

 

Oh, and by the way, welcome to G3, domi!