Rowan

[Wynne]

Yup. THAT Rowan, if you remember her. The one that never got finished and disappeared into the vaporous mists of obscurity. She's been mildly revamped and I have to promise nothing at this point to be safe and fair to you if you're reading my words now, but I will say this much--I've been working on her, and I feel like I have the strength to keep going this time. Writing a somewhat sad project is much easier when your life is a lot less unhappy than it was. And in this context and perspective, I believe I can see where the project was going, as well as where it should go.

 

This is mostly the reason for my motto of "promise nothing"--not because I don't want to get this to the community as another snowflake on the beautiful landscape it's become, but because I have not finished the dialogue, I have no coder and pretty much no hope of coding it myself. (I even tried to read Ghreyfain's tutorials. Within minutes my eyes and brain were swimming and I nearly wept from the way my head went OUCH I DON'T UNDERSTAND AND I'M MELTING.) Particularly since it would be a potentially strenuous undertaking, due to the complexity of variables and the large amount of dialogue. If taught by a dedicated individual, I might be able to do simple things you tell me, like "put tildes at the beginning and end of each line" (is that right?), but beyond that I'm pretty well and truly sunk. If you are an interested coder--and a dedicated, experienced one for the best chance of getting through this with your sanity, although I promise to do my absolute damnedest to not drive you out of your mind and to keep you supplied with the adoration and thanks a good coder deserves--but you're already doing something else, we might still work something out. I am, after all, still working on this, and in no real rush because even when I'm technically done, I want to comb the dialogue until it shines. I've got about 25 conversations and some banters to boot, but there's more to do yet.

 

But I figured I'll finish writing the darned thing whether I can get a coder (or coders) or not. Hence, a quick overview.

 

My original problems with the BG2 NPCs--much as I loved them to pieces, and I'm not being sarcastic or meaning that I literally tore them into pieces in-game--were pretty simple. The only options for male PCs were light-haired female elven clerics. ALL THREE of them. And none of them wanted anything much to do with you if you were a woman; they only wanted some hot man-rump, and forget your Bhaalspawn arse if it wasn't male. Even Jaheira could've been more friendly, considering all you'd gone through together. There were also no NPCs you could carry as a viable thief throughout the game, unless you wanted a multi-class in Jan. But I understand; game-makers are on a deadline, mod-makers have no deadline but that which they set for themselves, and they weren't even sure whether the whole romance thing would go over. In some respects, there's more we modder types can do. Flirt technology proves that.

 

Hence, Rowan. A dark-haired human thief who wants to talk to you whether she thinks you're sexy or not, and won't kick you away if you're a gnome or something. Or even if you're evil. She'll try, albeit not so hard you start laughing at her for thinking you'll ever change, to help you become a better person, at least if you've wavered at times, and treated her well enough to indicate you might eventually listen to her. So this is the mindset from which I developed her; a thief whose most important requirement is that you muster some of your better self. She won't go back to the life she once led, but she will be loyal, and do the best she can to care for the person who saved her, and help them avoid the traps she fell into.

 

Rowan Silvayne

 

Portrait--Originally by a very talented artist named Katherine Dinger, modified by me; I tried to get her permission but she never contacted me back. I'll probably use it anyway unless she says "Find another one, or else lawyers", but really, why would she want to say that? I'm not going to make any money off her work, and I am flattering her and telling more people who might want to purchase her work that she exists. So here is the Ep-size portrait. What I did to it: Put a hood on over the hair, painted in the sky, made her eyes green, gave her the scars she has.

http://home.comcast.net/~wynne/RowanG.bmp

Why the scars? She was on the run with no cleric to tend to the wounds she received, and there is actually a whole conversation about it. So even if her portrait gets replaced, it should be one with visible scars for continuity. But does a person really have to have no flaws to be loved? I never thought so, and I'm assuming most folks will agree with me on that. Despite her scars, which in a symbolic way represent what she did and what was done to her, I think there's still beauty there.

 

Romance Theme--There is a free project, unless you want to count the charities the artist points you to, available for download in the use of RPGs. It's called "Celestial Aeon". I ask and would appreciate that no one use "Angel's Redemption"--it's the one I plan to use for Rowan, and as sad as it sounds it won't be appropriate for most romances anyway. But if you're looking for a theme for your romance or such, there are many good songs you can use without having to spend a buck. http://www.mikseri.net/artists/?id=48147

And Angel's Redemption can be listened to here, if you'd like to spoil yourself:

http://www.mikseri.net/music/play.php?id=158774&type=hi

 

Class--Thief

Preferably with an option in the install to choose between good old vanilla thief and a carefully balanced custom kit that better fits her lifestyle.

 

Kit Information--Probably "Outlaw"

Restricts her from using shields/dual-wielding/anything that would slow her down on the run (too much weight or too many things to pick up in order to defend yourself if awakened by an enemy) and likely trading someof the usual thief bonuses for fighter. After all, she's done more fighting lately than thieving, but she's still actively using her thief abilities to hide from bounty hunters. Whatever was made of this would require extensive discussion and polling to properly balance the nuances. I seriously want this to be just about the same as a normal thief or thief kit in terms of the good versus the bad. Since we all know the thief class in and out, I would simply like to see a character that requires some real thought to properly use her strengths while counteracting her weaknesses (one of which will likely be no-contest morale failure upon sighting a spider, due to her past history with them.)

 

Dualing Possibilities--If you decide you don't need her with better thief skills, if you're traveling with another thief or are a thief yourself, you can dual her to plain old fighter. It does make sense, after all.

 

Stats--

 

STR: 17

 

DEX: 18

 

CON: 16

 

INT: 13

 

WIS: 10

 

CHA: 12

 

Proficiencies: Most likely Long Sword, Long Bow; possibly Short Sword/Single Weapon Style. I am thinking the kit would allow more concentrated mastery of certain weapons, but certainly nothing a thief couldn't use. If the kit balances that way, she might be restricted to light weapons like short swords and short bows.

 

Character: To some folks this might be familiar; Rowan went through several phases in her life. Approximately five.

 

One, happy little girl with a normal and fairly bright future.

 

Second, sad little girl whose ranger father got picked apart by a plentiful mob of really large, dark, unnatural spiders who liked to eat human flesh. When her mother remarried and forgot about her, she then got mixed up with thieves, and learned she had some talent for the trade.

 

Third, naive barely-out-of-girlhood young woman who fell madly infatuated with the fatherly necromancer who slowly warped her mind, convincing her to do worse and worse things for the safety of her 'love' and her 'friends'.

 

Fourth, young woman who--late at night whilst hiding--overheard that necromancer casually remarking to a companion that if they met an assassin more useful, they could always get rid of Rowan in some amusingly torturous way, which both broke her heart and broke the hold he'd possessed, bringing reality back to bear and all the agony of no-longer-suppressed or rationalized conscience with it.

 

Fifth, slightly less young woman (a tiny bit older than the PC when you meet her) alternately running and hiding from the law for years, in the vain hope that she'll find a way to counteract the wrong she'd done. As if you could ever undo a single murder, let alone years of it.

 

And so, Rowan sets out on an utterly hopeless quest, but a fairly noble one. She banters, but her confidence is mostly with the PC. If you're a lady, or a man with Int/Wis/Cha under 10, she'll befriend you--and not just as an afterthought. You can shut her up completely, but if you don't, she'll quiz you fairly extensively about your life experiences, with quite a few options to answer her by, and try to be as strong for you as you've been for her. Perhaps even a little like the mother you never knew. If you're a male with Int/Wis/Cha above 10 (sorry, Minsc! we love you, just not THAT way) you can eventually turn that friendship into something more. And even if you're not her preference, I plan to let you tell her how you feel.

 

Rowan in SOA will be pretty troubled, but by TOB I think she'll have learned enough to be strong for the PC when she's needed most.

 

Race--I notice I haven't mentioned race, beyond saying she can be dualed. That's because I don't believe in racism. Yes, I know some people love elves so much their heads might explode if they are elf-deprived. But come on, can't you elven people love a non-elf while still being an elf yourself? Rowan didn't choose humanity; she was just born that way. And the whole "I won't live long enough to see our children grow up all the way, and you'll have to live out your long years without me..." thing is tragically romantic.

 

Dialogue--In case anyone wants to be spoiled, here's a beta version of the first meeting with Rowan.

 

http://home.comcast.net/~wynne/RowanIM.txt

[BigRob]

I remember Rowan, it's nice to see some life might be stirring. Best of luck to you Wynne.

[Wynne]

I remember Rowan, it's nice to see some life might be stirring. Best of luck to you Wynne.

 

Thanks, Rob. And I eagerly await Aklon.

[berelinde]

Bit of a stretch here, but you might be able to manage it if you were able to get hosting and moderator priviledges somewhere.

 

You could have a private forum with limited membership. People with the skill and inclination could sign up to do drive-by coding.

 

Hardly an idea solution. Far from it. Probably a downright bad idea.

 

It would be far better for one person to take responsibility for the entire project, but that is a lot to ask of anyone.

 

Maybe you could break it down?

 

Possible Post: I've got the joining dialog written. It's 20.4 KB. Any takers?

Possible Reply: It's a short file. I can probably manage it.

 

If you kept a diligent list of all variables, it might work.

[Miloch]

Sounds like a well-thought-out NPC. I'd offer to help, but I know little of dialog coding myself (let me know if you need any custom items though ). But as you say, the coding obstacles shouldn't hold you back from writing the dialogue.

 

Have you considered perhaps making the NPC available in BG1/Tutu? I'm just suggesting this because there are relatively few NPCs for Tutu, compared with the apparently saturated market for BG2. Or even if you want to keep her mainly in BG2, you could perhaps introduce her as a cameo in the BG1 flow. Maybe she joins the party briefly toward the end of BG1 and runs when soldiers show up or something (and reappears in BG2). Just an idea.

[Domi]

Bit of a stretch here, but you might be able to manage it if you were able to get hosting and moderator priviledges somewhere.

 

I have a feeling we'll see it at PPG one of these days Good luck, Wynne. Damn, I hate making these 'unfortunately I can't help' posts, but I hope that you'll either find a coder, or take a shot at it yourself. Take it from me - it became much, much, much simpler than in the times of Kelsey v1!

[Wynne]

It would be far better for one person to take responsibility for the entire project, but that is a lot to ask of anyone.

 

Yeah. :/ It's hard to find someone who believes in and loves a project so much that they would code it just to get it to the community. Normally, that's reserved for either truly close friends or for one's own project. There's no shortage of talent around here.

 

You could have a private forum with limited membership. People with the skill and inclination could sign up to do drive-by coding.

 

Maybe you could break it down?

If you kept a diligent list of all variables, it might work.

 

That's actually a great possibility, and I thank you for it. I'm not sure if I could do the list of variables well, because I don't really understand how they work... maybe if I had some help with that, too... augh, I am such a right-brained person. But if it were possible, it's definitely an option I could live with. Thanks again!

 

Sounds like a well-thought-out NPC.

 

Why, thank you. As to the custom items, I might eventually... (spoilerish here) I was planning on a path where the PC can do something _truly_ evil to Rowan--namely, place a certain collar on her which removes her ability to think for herself, essentially enslaving her, for those PCs who want to run through ToB without her cramping their rep style anymore. (and there would even be a 'redeem yourself' kind of option where sometime during ToB you can remove that item and apologize, albeit at the cost of her leaving.)

 

Have you considered perhaps making the NPC available in BG1/Tutu? I'm just suggesting this because there are relatively few NPCs for Tutu, compared with the apparently saturated market for BG2. Or even if you want to keep her mainly in BG2, you could perhaps introduce her as a cameo in the BG1 flow. Maybe she joins the party briefly toward the end of BG1 and runs when soldiers show up or something (and reappears in BG2). Just an idea.

 

The problem with this (otherwise very fine, as I love Tutu) idea is that I started writing Rowan even before Tutu existed. At that point--and even now, really--to go back to Baldur's Gate means that when that game ends, either Rowan has to die, desert the PC, or otherwise not see the end of his/her story, unless I want to write a romance spanning _three_ games, essentially, rather than two. (or one and a half versus two and a half.) I would have to do a lot, lot, lot of rewriting if I wanted to somehow make a friendship-to-romance relationship based largely on conversations about the PC's past and heritage and even the events of BG work somehow in BG.

 

I have long wanted, largely, to make the PC able to define their past. One of the reasons I love the BG NPC project so much is that the romances I saw allow you to do that--you can tell Xan and Coran and Ajantis (and in BG2, Kivan) things about your character's life. And that was my heart for the project in the first place; to be able to let the PC write their own story a little more closely, if only within the context of their conversations with Rowan. Just to give you an idea of what I mean...

 

Friendly Talk 1--Short; she mentions she already had heard a little about <CHARNAME>, hero/heroine of the Sword Coast, and asks what you're up to.

FT2--Short; she talks about how experienced the PC looks and mentions it's different to be following a leader again rather than being forced to make all decisions on her own.

FT3--She quizzes you about Sarevok and what it was like to kill your 'brother'. One of the key lines you can say is, to explain an earlier comment you might've made, "I had no intention of applying those words to you, Rowan. You made it clear to me the day we met that your parents raised you well and that even as a thief on the streets, your heart had its own compass. Sarevok was not the same as you. He never cried for anyone... and I've heard you at night."

FT4--About Irenicus and how you came to Amn.

FT5--You tell her you're a Bhaalspawn for the first time, and how you feel about it.

FT6--You talk further about the whole Bhaalspawn thing.

FT7--You get the chance to go into detail about what your life was like at Candlekeep; whether you were a prankster who never realized the darker instincts behind that mayhem, or a true bookworm torn from your own cloistered paradise, or a firebrand who was always looking for a scuffle whether you could win it or not, or a creative dreamer, or an awkward loner, or much the same as you are now--except for being shorter, younger, and not having had to fight for your life.

FT8--You have a nightmare you get to define; either guilt over having had to kill your 'brother,' guilt at being unable to save Imoen, a tormented reliving of Irenicus' toying with your mind and body, or simply your heritage haunting you again.

 

Later talks deal more with Rowan than just the PC, but nevertheless, most of the talks naturally limit themselves to being BG2. Few work as BG material. I'd have to redo at least 75% of the material. :/ So while in theory I'd be happy to do that, it's not a viable choice.

 

I have a feeling we'll see it at PPG one of these days

 

Could be! I hadn't asked yet because I figured it wouldn't be much help if I didn't have a coder, but I'm very talented at begging and making the soulful puppy eyes of pleading, so it's definitely in the realm of possibility.

 

Good luck, Wynne. Damn, I hate making these 'unfortunately I can't help' posts, but I hope that you'll either find a coder, or take a shot at it yourself. Take it from me - it became much, much, much simpler than in the times of Kelsey v1!

 

Hey, I appreciate the well-wishing! And I'm not even disappointed you can't help--I know it might just be that you're too busy with real life, but there's a part of my brain that perks up and goes, "maybe she's making another awesome mod for me to play!" so if that's the case, I can only grin.

 

I really would like to try to code something... I'm sure I could at least make it a lot easier for someone else to code it properly. And, in turn, a smaller workload means a much better chance of somebody wanting to code it properly. But the melting brain syndrome I experienced while trying to read Ghreyfain's "coding for dummies" and Weimer's "WeiDUing for dummies" tutorials seems like a cue that I'm stuck with fishing for a real coder. Or waiting and hoping that someone writes a more basic tutorial, like "coding for complete dummies who have never touched a modding tool in their life and can barely use metapad." Until such a time, I think this'll have to stay on paper.

[Miloch]

As to the custom items, I might eventually... (spoilerish here) I was planning on a path where the PC can do something _truly_ evil to Rowan--namely, place a certain collar on her which removes her ability to think for herself, essentially enslaving her...

Cool. A human choke collar that enslaves its victim. *Finally* an item worthy of my evil (lack of) talent. Let me know when you need it.

 

[N.B.: Although the item itself should be fairly easy, you may need to come up with alternate dialog for her when she's wearing it. Or a variable for it at least and perhaps just no dialog at all when the variable is set.]

 

Edit: Also, delete the backslash before the quote in the third paragraph of your post above if you want them to appear correctly. I do that all the time... funny how one little character can throw everything off.

[Domi]

And that was my heart for the project in the first place; to be able to let the PC write their own story a little more closely, if only within the context of their conversations with Rowan. Just to give you an idea of what I mean...

 

And I think that it was an idea that many of us took close to heart. Indeed, when people say that Cernd or Valygar are the most boring characters in BG2, I always say that no, the most boring character is PC. He or she got a bit of a backstory, but he or she never talks about it and have no consistent personality to speak of judging from his/her replies.

 

 

 

And I'm not even disappointed you can't help--I know it might just be that you're too busy with real life, but there's a part of my brain that perks up and goes, "maybe she's making another awesome mod for me to play!" so if that's the case, I can only grin.

 

Well, i don't know if it's awsome, but I am working on something: http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showforum=116

 

I really would like to try to code something... I'm sure I could at least make it a lot easier for someone else to code it properly. And, in turn, a smaller workload means a much better chance of somebody wanting to code it properly. But the melting brain syndrome I experienced while trying to read Ghreyfain's "coding for dummies" and Weimer's "WeiDUing for dummies" tutorials seems like a cue that I'm stuck with fishing for a real coder. Or waiting and hoping that someone writes a more basic tutorial, like "coding for complete dummies who have never touched a modding tool in their life and can barely use metapad." Until such a time, I think this'll have to stay on paper.

 

Ah, but we do have such tutorial at G3, by Theacefes http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=5886:

 

It's much easier to get into than Ghrey's or Sim's, those are a bit more advanced. Blue's Road to Banter with JC's additions on CHAIN is also a good start!

[Wynne]

[N.B.: Although the item itself should be fairly easy, you may need to come up with alternate dialog for her when she's wearing it. Or a variable for it at least and perhaps just no dialog at all when the variable is set.]

 

Most definitely. There will be three basic modes for Rowan--the friendly path and the romance path, which will use the same banters/interjections, and the third will be no relationship/enslaved, which in either case would turn off banters/interjections/everything. In the enslaved case, however, there is a modified, tormented soundset which mostly consists of variations on "Yes, master", references to herself as "it", offers to kill things or kill itself, battle cries such as "It--shouldn't--but the master has told it to," with the rarer sounds being confused, disoriented, agonized "What have you done to me?" and the death sound being a choked cry, then a sighed "free."

 

On top of this, she won't even really sound like the same person; the quality of her voice will be warped due to the enchantment's darker properties. All this is just to make it clear that this is not a natural state for her, and the PC has done something really, really wrenchingly bad that even an evil character might balk at if they had any true attachment to her. Because it's not that she's truly mindless; that would be semi-humane, like being dead or comatose. It's more like she's paralyzed, drifting in and out of coma, struggling--and always failing because of the unnatural enchantment--to get her free will back. So if you want, you can play more than one type of evil--the sort who puts the collar on, but can't quite abide what they've done to her, or the sort who leaves it on and makes her a permanent slave, enjoying it all in a terrible sort of way. "Dad" would be proud.

 

Edit: Also, delete the backslash before the quote in the third paragraph of your post above if you want them to appear correctly. I do that all the time... funny how one little character can throw everything off.

 

*blush* Ack, thank you! I wondered why it wasn't working... thought it was because the forums had been down. Human error strikes again. *sheepish*

 

And I think that it was an idea that many of us took close to heart. Indeed, when people say that Cernd or Valygar are the most boring characters in BG2, I always say that no, the most boring character is PC. He or she got a bit of a backstory, but he or she never talks about it and have no consistent personality to speak of judging from his/her replies.

 

I completely agree--I understand why they did that, but it makes the NPCs seem pretty self-centered. But at least we modders have the time to do better for old <CHARNAME>'s possible dispositions.

 

Well, i don't know if it's awsome, but I am working on something: http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showforum=116

 

Hmm... you know what's crazy? I still haven't played the Icewind Dale games! I'm going to really have to give them a look, although probably after I'm done with the current project. (Which I hopefully WILL really get done, someday. )

 

Ah, but we do have such tutorial at G3, by Theacefes:

It's much easier to get into than Ghrey's or Sim's, those are a bit more advanced. Blue's Road to Banter with JC's additions on CHAIN is also a good start!

 

Oh, thank you, Domi! I looked around for tutorials, but clearly I didn't look hard enough... I'll take a gander at this and see how much I can probably do. I'm sure the more sophisticated stuff is beyond me, but better shape I can get this material into, the better my chances of getting a willing and able coder who has the time to make it all work. Much appreciation.

[Magnus_025]

Oh my god, I've just finished reading this post and I must admit that I have fallen in love with Rowan! I hope that you can get her to live Wynne, and if you ever need a Spanish translator (or want one), contact me, I'll be glad to help!

Best wishes for your work. Bye!

[Miloch]

In the enslaved case, however, there is a modified, tormented soundset which mostly consists of variations on "Yes, master", references to herself as "it", offers to kill things or kill itself, battle cries such as "It--shouldn't--but the master has told it to," with the rarer sounds being confused, disoriented, agonized "What have you done to me?" and the death sound being a choked cry, then a sighed "free."

Heh. I guess I shouldn't be chuckling, but for some reason I'm picturing a cross between a female Gollum and one of Robert Jordan's damanes. Though I'm sure the character certainly doesn't resemble the former and the latter only applies to female spellcasters.

 

But from a technical perspective, how would the PC be able to control the NPC via the collar? Is there a leash attached to it (kind of impractical for combat)? Or perhaps another device (say a ring or amulet) magically linked to it? Or is it perhaps just a simple collar, and more of a psychological device than magical?

Hmm... you know what's crazy? I still haven't played the Icewind Dale games!

See Domi, I'm not the only one "behind the times"! (Though from my perspective, IWD is a "newer" game )

[Guest Guest]

While I can't make any real contributions (know a tad bit less than nil about coding), I can add some support and say that what I've read so far has blown me away. I really hope this thing becomes a mod, its got too much calibur not to. Plus some very nice music to go along... I feel there is a wonderful story to be told here and it definitely deserves the telling. Great job and the best of wishes to you all.

[Tameon the Dragoon]

Wow, Rowan? Man, this takes me back. My best wishes to you, Wynne! I'm just now starting to get the hang of coding and therefore couldn't really help much there, but if there's anything else you need just send me a PM.