Should I include a hint request as a PID option?

[berelinde]

Gavin's PID menu is extensive. He's already got a heck of a lot of choices for PID, but I was wondering if he needs to have another one.

 

Several of Gavin's lovetalks have conditions. You have to camp outdoors during daylight, go to a town, sleep at an inn, sleep after leaving the catacombs.

 

Would it be helpful if I included a non-fourth-wall breaking question that players can ask if they want to know more about the next lovetalk?

 

Something like:

*Gavin smiles at your approach.*

PC: Is there anywhere special you would like to go?

 

So, if he's getting ready for a lovetalk that happened at an inn, he could answer:

"It's been a while since we stayed at an inn, hasn't it? My back could use a break from the cold ground."

 

Or, if the next lovetalk is sequential, without conditions, he could say:

"Wherever you want to go is fine with me."

 

I know Amber does this. I hadn't wanted to steal the idea, even though it is a good one, but I'd hate to think that someone would think the relationship was stalled when he was actually just being fussy.

[Kulyok]

I think it would be simpler to recode these special talks as separate lovetalks. That is, after lovetalk 4, there is lovetalk 6, and lovetalk 5 triggers

"if lovetalk 4 and not yet lovetalk 12(?) and resting in an inn/camping outdoors during daylight/whatever". And leaving the notes in the readme, too, perhaps.

[berelinde]

There's a pdf guide that has it all spelled out, but that doesn't mean people are going to stop what they are doing, minimize the game, open it up, and check it.

 

'Course that doesn't mean they're going to ask him, either.

 

I'm not recoding the lovetalks. Period. It took me days. Including a PID option takes minutes.

[Kulyok]

Then, yeah, PID might be the best bet. I know firsthand how frustrating a stalled romance may be - Coran's inn talk gave me a lot of trouble, and it's no fun to consult the readme every hour - well, might be fun to get some hints("Hey, if I take him there, there'll be an extra flirt!"), but not more than that.

[DalreiDal]

You know, I never consult the RomanceGuides because I don't want any spoilers (and I do mean, ANY), so yeah, I'd definitely take a PID option to ask him what the hell is wrong!!! I admit that conditions isn't all that spoilerish and I could open up the guide and scan through to check what I haven't done in a while, but I dislike doing that in case my eyes would fall on something I don't want to see (er, that is, things I don't want to see outside of my game). Though with all the help we get on these forums, I don't know that it's all that necessary!

[berelinde]

I think I will set it up to give a hint, but not until the timer has expired.

 

If the romance timer has not expired, asking him where he'd like to go will always return "Wherever you want to go is fine with me." If the romance timer *has* expired, though, he'll say something not terribly spoilerish, like the comment about the inn.

 

That way, if everything is cooking along nicely, the player need never ask, but if he/she gets stuck, the option will be there.

 

The spoilers in the romance guide are just the first lines of the talks. It's probably possible to read between the lines and construct the course the relationship will follow, but then the relationship isn't all *that* innovative, so I believe the player already knows more or less what's going to happen in the relationship, anyway.

[Domi]

I think it's a good, non-immersion breaking way to go about it.

[CamDawg]

I think it's a bad, immersion breaking way to go about it.

[berelinde]

Seriously, or is that stealth humor sneaking in under the radar?

 

I'd kind of like to save people the frustration of having to look it up or wait for someone to answer the question on a forum.

[CamDawg]

Love doesn't happen because of where you are or the time of day, it happens because of a relationship between two people. My relationship with my wife didn't happen because I knew the right time to walk through downtown, when to go camping, or when to stay at a B&B. If the romance track requires these things on a regular enough basis to require hints, then it's probably time to re-examine the romance sequence instead of adding hints.

 

Context-sensitive LTs are an excellent idea and really increase quality and replayability. If it's time for LT 5 and you're in a forest, add some forest-relevant lines to Gavin's dialogue and the PC replies, or substitute a forest-themed LT outright--but I think delaying a LT because you're not in the right place doesn't makes a lot of sense. It's nonsensical that Jaheira suddenly stops talking to me because I haven't slept outdoors; the only way this makes sense is if I have OOC knowledge.

[berelinde]

Fair enough, but the talks happen where they do and when they do for specific reasons, not just to space things out. There are other ways to do that, like asking for a little more solitude.

 

I can't make the talks unconditional because they do depend on the surroundings, and often start out talking *about* the surroundings. Unfortunately, these are the talks that define transitions in the relationship. Just like life. We all choose the setting for important discussions. I'm sure you didn't decide on the right time for every hike, stroll, or beach trip, but I bet you chose the spot you'd propose very carefully.

 

But you do have a point. I don't have to include this as a PID, but I don't have to avoid hinting, either. When it's getting close to a condional LT, he can always drop a hint on his own, if the area type is wrong. "<CHARNAME>, can we head into town soon? I'm almost out of comfrey, and I've never been able to tell which is bindweed and which is arrow-leaf." If the PC can't guess what that means, a PID won't help.

[Minarvia]

I like the idea of having hints in the PID's. I, too, have been frustrated by romances that stall and I don't know why. I would rather have you do it this way than have to open the Readme all the time.

[berelinde]

Would a general hint like the town one in my last post do it for you, or should it be a more obvious request?

[Minarvia]

Would a general hint like the town one in my last post do it for you, or should it be a more obvious request?

 

For me, a general hint like in your last post would be best.

If I still get stuck (hopefully I'm not that dense, tho) I can always ask here or look in the Readme.

[Domi]

For me the obvious concern was always the "Is romance broken?!" As long as I can check the status and as long as the condition on the lovetalk is not outlandish (ie must set for rest at an inn between 5 and 6 pm, lol) I'll be fine with just the: "Are you still intersted in me?" -"Oh, yes!" kind of thing. But I would not mind a "Of course, let's go walk in the forst tonight,"/"cuddle by the fire in a common room together tonight" kind of answer. I wouldn't feel it's mood breaking, and hey, seeing how the random flirts are still poping up, I think that the atmosphere of the 'love is hapening independently of the circumstances' is kind of observed.

 

Obviously, another solution is what Cam sugested: not to hold the talks, but make it an event-dependent flirt, but then you risk to end up with a whole lot of event-dependent flirts....