Daulmakan

IMO it's blown out of proportion. SOME things being broken/unbalanced is a far cry from making the entire 2E system broken, that is simply nonsense. Yes it is. Volume 2 of the Priest Spell Compendium. And I don't think it's that big of a deal. IIRC there aren't that many deities with access to the Time sphere, and most that do have access to it are restricted from other useful spells from different spheres. Of course, introducing it into BG2 would clash with the ingame implementation of Wish, given the nature of the game. But complaining against something that hasn't been done seems moot.

You say that we can use several spells to generate XP out of nowhere, perpetuum mobile? It contradicts laws of thermodynamics, and while I know we're talking about magic in fantasy setting, I'd find it strange to not apply it onto well-developed game system. If, by some bizarre way, you manage to get an enemy wizard to keep throwing summons at you without killing him or getting killed in the process, which is inevitably halted at some point, as there's a limit to spells per day after all (after which you can just kill him), making this assumption pretty pointless, then I guess so. Note, however, 2 things: 1) the mage must be an enemy, party summon friendlies exploits are excluded. 2) the XP isn't generated out of nowhere, you're just bringing along a creature that was somewhere else at the point previous to the casting. Teleporting/plane shifting to its location instead and killing it would accomplish the same effect. Taking your extreme example to the extreme, taking an enemy wizard prisoner and giving him a spellbook of only summoning spells and engaging him each day under monitored and regulated conditions by the party wouldn't yield XP because the DM could rule that there is no actual challenge there. Blatant exploits aren't part of my argument. In that case, you get XP for completing the test, as in Quest experience. The fact that it involves fireballs is irrelevant. You can get dozens of thousands of XP just by answering a riddle, after all. I'm talking only about the concept, not game balance. I guess the discussion continues, then.

You keep ignoring what I say: the nature of the products is entirely different. Nope. Making a save and just taking damage requires nothing, and then you have all your action points for that round available for making an attack, without having to worry about the summon in question. But the main point here is not the caster, but the summons. If the summoned monster would yield XP when killed individually, why killing it when summoned by a mage doesn't? Perhaps a separation of points is best. If you prefer no XP to be awarded for summons because it makes the game harder, then it's enough of a reason. But the justification derives from the purpose itself, and as such, isn't convincing when the implementation is separated from that purpose.

That's what Ardanis has been saying and what I've been arguing against all this time. A level 8 spell slot != a demon from the lower planes, you have it wrong. The demon has an XP listed value, a spell does not. And your post doesn't adress my previous one.

That's what I'm saying. The process is different (fireballs or demons), the end result is the same. PS In case it's not obvious - I'm advocating the position that granting XP for killed summons is not justified within game rules. You missed my entire point. A Demon is an extra creature defeated, a Fireball is not. Killing a Glabrezu demands resources: attacks, spells, and so on. Resisting a Fireball is a passive action.

I could say the same. XP is granted on account of level of power, which in itself has a varying degree of efficiency when applied. There's no discerning between levels of success when computing it, because two same creatures with the same power level could obtain different results. Quick examples: 1. after a vicious fight, the party manages to defeat a level 20 wild mage, but half the party is killed in the process. 2. An equivalent level 20 wild mage casts a spell but gets a wild magic roll that polymorphs him into a rabbit, party kills him with ease, no casualties. In both cases, the party gets the same XP for defeating the same creature, even though the process for each case differes greatly. By your rationality, if I manage to defeat Firkraag in just a couple of rounds via use of Timestop+Alacrity+ABDH or malisoned Finger of death or whatever, I should get less XP (or even nothing) because it was a walk in the park THAT time. It doesn't work that way. You get the corresponding XP because you whacked a red dragon, regardless if you got lucky or not while doing it.

And? Another critter is an 8th spell of the main one. No, the Glabrezu is not a spell. The spell doesn't CREATE it, it just brings it to the fight from somewhere else. If you encountered that same Glabrezu in the lower planes, you'd get XP for killing it. I'm not sure what to make of this, it doesn't seem sensible beahaviour and neither do I see the relevance to the point of discussion.

No. Why should you? You whacked 2 critters instead of 1 in scenario 2. IMO, hostile summons should yield XP when killed, and friendly summons should yield none if force-attacked (this is an obvious exploit). aTweaks employs this behaviour for the summoned fiends.

Sorry about that. Thanks for update.

Just out of curiosity, how much % of the mod would you say is already done?

What type of item BAM do you need? I could give it a shot if you want. Just FYI, I provide an alternate way of forging the IMoD in my mod, if you want to check for it during installation of the Randomizer to avoid duplication.

Sorry for the thread necromancing. I just remembered about this mod, and reading Andyr's last comments, the mod is supposedly done (other than voicing). Is releasing it out of the question? Would anyone share the beta/release candidate with me?

Great to hear. Well done, sir.

Don't have an Xbox, but that's like, EPIC WIN!

Got them, Nythrun. Thanks. A few more comment typos (this probably isn't the place for this, but you can always ban me ): Leat19.itm is Shadow Dragon Scale.

I can't seem to find most of the altered .dlgs in the TP2. Are they stored in another file type? How would I go about removing/comment them out? BTW Small typo on one of the comments: