Bartimaeus

I don't think I understood the initial post correctly in that you meant you removed your character from the party and truly made them a neutral character. If that's the case, then that's such an edge case (and almost definitely harmless) that I'm not concerned. Thanks for the insight, kjeron.

The 69 opcode just makes it so...spells like True Seeing can't dispel the stealth status, right? So yeah, that would already be covered by protecting wholesale against invisibility-detection spells, so it's a bit superfluous. Would be indeed good to know if that particular opcode causes scripting problems.

Oh, more aura issues? Just one moment, I think I found the problem... *deletes entire IRR repository* There, fixed! Okay, but real talk, I currently have a party of 6 people all wearing Doom Plates, and I can't seem to trigger this. Did it only happen once, and for just the round? I've never heard of a projectile that's enemy-only suddenly also targeting friendlies, but stranger things have happened I'm sure.

Hm, this is an ability I've never modified from the base SR package, so theoretically, it isn't my fault. I'll have to muck about and do some testing and find out for sure, though - thank you! @morpheus562 I have a general policy of defaulting optional tweaks to off so that people don't accidentally get weird stuff enabled they're not expecting coming from having played non-Revised previously. I will implement it sometime within the next week or two, though - it shouldn't be that particularly difficult to implement, but I am a bit busy right now. In regards to the spell state stuff... It should be noted that I do not play the EEs - as such, spell states as set by opcode 328 do not even exist in my games (instead, stuff like SCS makes use of some other more hacky stuff to more or less the same effect), so I only have a little working knowledge of them. I've added spell states to some miscellaneous things in the past at the behest of a couple of other knowledgeable EE players, but only ones that already existed in the .ids. So I don't know the details of adding an entirely new one, and I don't currently have the time to research and mess around with it. If you want to link me to something that explains or gives an example on how to do it, though, I can look at in the somewhat near-future.

As SRR is simply an unofficial add-on/revision of SR, I am at the mercy of SCS reacting to and accounting for SR. If the base mod doesn't give e.g. Dispelling Screen its own specific spell state, there's not much I can do about it, since even if I did add one, it would do nothing without the AI knowing how to react to it. Additionally, in regards to hijacking SI: Abjuration's, that makes no sense to me to have Dispelling Screen use that particular spellstate, seeing as that spellstate is for a spell protection and would likely trigger SCS AI into trying to use anti-magic spells like Secret Word to dispel it, when such a spell would be absolutely wasted. There's unfortunately no analogue for Dispelling Screen, as it has a unique function. This is not the first time this subject has come up in this particular thread: such talk is better directed at the base mod. However, if there are other analogous spell states for spells currently missing them in SR/R that will not cause bad spell detection/behavior, you're more than welcome to suggest them and I can see about implementing them. Non-Detection + Improved Invisibility is definitely a little wacky, but while SCS AI doesn't always conform to SR's rules in this regard, my experimentation in testing SCS's handling of it seemed to indicate that it does a "good enough" job that it doesn't act either super unfair towards or get completely broken because of it. Player AI, on the other hand, I know nothing about. This actually reminds me that I planned a long while ago on creating an optional settings.ini tweak to allow anti-magic spells to always be able to always pierce through improved invisibility so that the player can do what SCS can do in being able to force spells through - I wonder if that would help with player AI as well? @Chitown Willie Let's see here...base THAC0 of 20, no THAC0 bonus with weapon, terrible statistics...nothing looks out of the ordinary...but they do have that odd-ball "Swarm" ability - do they have ridiculous THAC0 even if there's only one bat fighting in an area?

No, but that's about all I know. There's no guarantee that your listed components are even the cause of that problem. Might be something that's a bit difficult to test, though.

Yeah, I wouldn't have ever bothered with those kinds of spell durations in SRR if I hadn't automated roughly 95% of it via some autohotkey and hex-editing scripts. I think the very worst spell I ever edited was SR's Physical Mirror, which has about an average of ~105 opcodes per header, and requires adds an additional reflected image every additional round it lasts. That little caveat made it very difficult to handle via my scripts, and the ridiculous amount of opcodes didn't help either... It's no wonder that it's the largest .spl in my override at 150 KB.

Pinging @subtledoctor because I don't know how to add additional headers via weidu either, and he's been yelling at me for years to weidu-ize everything, so he better know how to do it, .

~TB#TWEAKS/TB#TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #6000 // 3rd edition style Wisdom: TB#Tweaks, V 2.61 ...gives each character a +1 to vs. spell saving throws for every 2 points of Wisdom past 10 that you have (and -1 per 2 below 11). Sort of similar.

Oh baby, now you're talking. Yes, I've spoken with DavidW on a number of different things and full SCS compatibility has always been one of my goals, so in cases where I change something that makes SCS not use it quite right, I have reverted or otherwise adjusted it (and similarly, when non-Revised SR has done stuff like make spells that used to have a long cast range instead have a short cast range and break sequencers/contingencies, I've also changed them so that won't happen). I've also always advised everyone (including him) to never worry about specifically SRR, as I would make sure that SRR conforms when needed to instead of the other way around - even if it means not making every change I might want to. Also, just a note, but you should not use the @DavidNYC pinging function unless you're actually requesting their attention for something specific. Some of the more busy modders, like DavidW, already get enough pings without needing to check out random ones that aren't actually asking for them to look at anything, .

Uh...for those of us in the back wearing dunce caps that don't know what the heck a LABEL is and are just trying to piece it together from subtext in the above post, this thread should help:

Poke around with Mirror Image (SPWI212.spl). https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/1y4kcoku0iejaqw/eZ4Zj4hq0g.mp4 Every header is essentially a new spell, and which one you actually cast is tied to what level the casting character is. The first header (required level 1) does its four opcodes, creating 3 images; the second header (required level 6) also has its opcodes, but they do not necessarily have to be the same opcodes - in this case, they are, except the Mirror Image opcode (#159) is changed to instead create 4 images. You can probably start to get a grasp of how exhausting spell-making can be doing it manually this way when you start to consider that a number of spells have durations of like "1 round/level": every single new level will have its own header with its own effects, and every opcode for the specific header will need to have its duration set individually. So if you have a spell with a duration that changes every experience level, and you have 30 opcodes that are used at each level, and you want it to scale up to level 20, then if it were a first level spell, there'd be 20 headers with 30 opcodes each for a total of 600 opcodes that you have to set the duration for. If this were an offensive spell with a saving throw that scales up with level, you'd also have to change the saving throw for each opcode. Depending on the spell, it can be utterly insane: that's why I often makes changes via hex editing instead of DLTCEP or NI, since I can automate and make pattern-based changes very quickly. But that's an entirely different subject and one that I'm not about to get into.

Let's say you did that - you add a -2 saving throw to *just* opcode 5 (charm). So you cast the spell on an eligible creature, and they fail their saving throw for the charm effect - but NOT the others, because the saving throw/bonus for them was different and the creature successfully saved against them. So now the creature is charmed, but the other opcodes, #142 (Display Special Effect Icon) and #215 (Play 3D Effect), do not fire. For this particular spell, this just means some graphical effects will not play so ultimately it will be visually inconsistent but relatively harmless. For other spells where multiple effects are necessary for the spell to completely function, you can start to imagine where you might start running into issues. Even for simple spells like this, if your intended effect has other associated opcodes (such as display portrait icon, play 3D effect, play sound, display string, apply lighting effect, to name just a few of the most frequently occurring), you should make the saving throw consistent across all effects unless you truly do not care if the effects will be inconsistently applied. I personally would not want a spell that only sometimes plays the intended graphical effect that shows it was successfully applied instead of all the time, but if you're doing spells and abilities just for yourself, you can make your own decisions on what's worth your time to edit.

Rather than using opcode #37, look at all the other opcodes for the spell. For example, spcl311.spl has opcodes #142, #5, and #215. Each opcode has its own individual saving throw setting - look here in DLTCEP (but it's the same for NI if you're using that, just the UI layout is different): Change the saving throw and bonus values on each opcode to match instead - it's how everything else in the game is handled, and is less likely to cause problems (...although if you have a particularly complex spell with hundreds of opcodes used, it can be pretty annoying to change every single one without some automated way of doing it - I do it via hex, other people whip up patching code instead). Note that the saving throw type (and I THINK bonus value although I'm not 100% absolutely certain on that, somebody else would know for sure) should match if you want the same throwing throw roll to be used for the same spell. If you have a spell that has separate effects for different types of saving throws (for example, save vs. breath for damage, save vs. spell for some additional side-effect), then you make the associated opcodes for each separate effect match instead.

In regards to Dispelling Screen, I did not like the weirdities in SR with regards to the exact spells that would be blocked/could dispel Dispelling Screen, and ended up making it so that only a dispel magic (e.g. Dispel Magic, Remove Dispel, Reverse Magic, etc.) OR full breach effect could remove it. I believe I waffled on whether SR's weird hybrid Pierce Shield would be blocked by Dispelling Screen, and ended up making it so it would not - I'm still not sure if that was the correct decision, but it is what I went with.

Yes...and @subtledoctor's point is that this is a thread for a proposed optional mod for people who do like these sorts of changes, so what's the relevancy? This isn't for you: that's perfectly okay. I am starting to see why subtledoctor had a viscerally negative reaction to my post, especially seeing how that post started in contrast to how it ended. Everyone that isn't actually interested in the sorts of changes proposed by the OP, could you please vacate the thread - this is not the appropriate place to dump your axe-grinding.

Haven't ever had any issues with Nishruus or Hakeashars, they almost always die super quickly and seem like one of the weakest summons for those spellcasting levels. Also, don't they get instantly slain from any kind of Dispel Magic? Though I feel like...I have an inkling of a memory about some kind of self-healing problem they had, but I don't remember if it was fixed either in SR or SRR or what, and I can't say I've ever run into it myself. Not a hundred percent certain what exact conditions trigger their self-healing, either.

Completely agree with subtledoctor's unstated but definitely there opinion that purple should always be used for the best versions of things. Though I might be slightly biased, seeing as my favorite color is precisely that, .

I don't mind at all, especially since nothing else is going on in this thread right now. But yeah, this should probably be its own mod, since the idea works perfectly with or without SR. It's a great idea, especially seeing as SR has gotten a number of "how the hell do I tell what anyone has running they have like 15 different buffs and some of them don't have any clear graphics for them good lord" -type feedback over the years, and this would presumably prove helpful.

All well and good, but note that the second paragraph specifically gave context to the first, which was that I'd prefer to see alternative design that opens up new possibilities rather than spending significant amounts of time on technical solutions to shut down exploitative ones that no-one with any kind of good sense for balance (like the people who would be interested in these sorts of tweaks, such as literally myself) should be engaging with in the first place. For example, the idea of doggedly spending time to try to eliminate the various ways you can kite in these games (...especially when your characters can literally be slower than the enemies pursuing you and you can still easily kite them - it is not particularly difficult to kite an enemy that is literally twice as fast as yours) when you could be working on something that will actually add a new wrinkle in the gameplay feels a little silly - the latter would seem like a more worthwhile endeavour. Perhaps my first paragraph was too sweeping - I'm not concerned with effecting balance changes that only take a line or two of code to make. It was merely a suggestion to be economical in the use of time and effort when considering a big list of possible changes like this.

TnT...seems to be your mod? I see we've had a number of similar ideas, including Slayer form, True Sight, and Otiluke's. Does that Project Image tweak work for non-EE games? I would imagine not, but just making sure. I also feel like your statement about it accurately captures how I feel about many exploits: "To clarify, the purpose of this component is to give a normally working spell to the players who don't want to cheese in the first place. The purpose is not to close every possible PI exploit." Especially because I was about to ask you about your Otiluke's tweak and how you would prevent the Otiluked character from, say, casting Fireball at themselves over and over in the middle of a battle...but presumably you haven't done anything to prevent it and are simply trusting that the player won't do so since it's clearly a lame exploit.

A number of these can be solved by just...deciding to not use exploits/cheese. Not all of them, but a lot of them. You don't have to steal everything and create a never-ending loop of gold, nor do you have to engage in kiting (one of the game engine's oldest and most powerful exploits), nor do you have to use the old "talk to" exploit, or lay down a million spike traps with meta-knowledge, etc. People who would install something that would disable those...shouldn't be using them to begin with, right? So it might be a bit of a waste of effort to try to actually implement them. The people who love those exploits (and there are a number of them) are pretty much always going to want them to still be there, so they're not going to install something that disables them - and that's perfectly fine, if that's how they want to play the game. Therefore, I would suggest working on the ones where this is not the case, ones that are material alternative design changes that open up new options for players that refuse to engage with certain things because they're too cheap (e.g. if you think the Protection from Undead scroll is too ridiculous and therefore swear it off entirely as a player, it would make sense to redesign it in such a way where it's no longer so ridiculous and you *could* use it without feeling bad doing so - same for stuff like the Mislead spell).

Yeah, whoops, I think it's actually just the delay in between using items, but not in between using spells. Still, the overall point stands - OG Haste is significantly more powerful than SR Haste.

@you & @Ser Thomas You may do that - the mod should really have some kind of fix applied to it as it seems to be a very terrible practice to forcibly install a component like that. Alternatively, if it has already installed itself, you can simply go into your weidu.log, and find the following line..: ~INFINITYANIMATIONS/SETUP-INFINITYANIMATIONS.TP2~ #0 #9000 // Fix Areas -> Creature References: v5 ...and delete it entirely before attempting to re-run the Infinity Animations setup.exe to install all the other components. That way, it doesn't attempt to remove itself (and thereby removing all other components you installed in the meanwhile). It will install itself again after you've installed all your other Infinity Animations components, but it is harmless for it to install itself again, since it only looks for and corrects occurrences of a specific problem(s), so it's okay to stack its installation.

Haste is not even in the same stratosphere in terms of power compared to the vanilla game. Haste in the original game..: 1. Gave +1 APR. 2. Set move speed to 2x. 3. Halved item/scroll casting time. 4. Halved the delay between item/spell usage. 5. Doubled regeneration speed. 6. Some other miscellaneous speed effects (not all positive, such as poison running at twice speed, but mostly still positive). 7. ...For 3 rounds + 1 round/level in a 30' AoE. 8. +4 real fatigue after expiration. In both SR and SRR, Haste..: 1. Gives +1/2 APR. 2. Gives a +4 bonus to movement speed. 3. ...For 1 turn + 1 round/level in a 30' AoE. 4. -2 penalties to THAC0, damage, and AC for 2 rounds in simulation of a fatigue effect after expiration. Haste has been nerfed hard compared to vanilla. It's still a great spell, it is simply no longer by far the most powerful 3rd level spell in the game. In specifically regards to my AoE comment, that was referring to the fact that SR, for a long while, had Haste be a single target spell, which made it so the AI couldn't figure out how to use it (since it expected an AoE ground targeting-type).