Request for content feedback

[DavidW]

One of my biggest issues was the trash talking mages do. They automatically detect your stealth characters no matter what their move silently skill is

It's randomised, actually. About a 25% chance per round of spotting you, iirc.

 

If Beginner’s Guide to BG2 Scripting (by Goran Rimen and Yovaneth Scet) is correct, then it's 50% chance actually.

 

I could believe it. I was quoting from memory.

[Arkain]

Mhm... strange.

 

I recently managed to finally get rid of my bugged installation and thus reinstalled everything etc.. Right now I was entering the improved fire giant temple and noticed some odd behavior. I can imagine that a level 40 blade wielding some shiny weapons walking straight into a fire giant's home all alone might look impressive and stuff but I don't think the fire giants' reaction is... intended.

Basically it's like this: enter the blade. Fire giants attack the blade. Some moments afterwards they'll use their Hardiness ability and then it's getting awkward. For them at least, as they seem to prefer running randomly around the room, making me chase and hack them to bits instead of going on with their previous melee routine. I've tried several reinstallations but they insist on continuing it. Is it intended? I doubt so.

 

[edit] Noticed another thing: Imix and the Burning Men used their abilities while unconcious. Unconcious WW... yeah... right... [/edit]

[Salk]

If Beginner’s Guide to BG2 Scripting (by Goran Rimen and Yovaneth Scet) is correct, then it's 50% chance actually.

 

Well, in that case it's really really way too much.

 

I'd really like to see it toned down to reasonable levels.

[aVENGER_(RR)]

Noticed another thing: Imix and the Burning Men used their abilities while unconcious. Unconcious WW... yeah... right...

 

There's a known engine issue which unintentionally enables unconscious, confused and panicked enemies to use some scripted (ApplySpell, ForceSpell...) abilities. Unless a modder specifically designs his scripts to prevent this, it's bound to happen every once in a while. FYI, in Rogue Rebalancing I get around this by using this block early in my scripts:

 

IF
OR(2)
  StateCheck(Myself,STATE_REALLY_DEAD)
  StateCheck(Myself,STATE_DISABLED)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
	NoAction()
END

 

BTW, in case anyone's wondering, the STATE_REALLY_DEAD check is there to prevent dead, petrified and frozen characters from using Spell Triggers and such. In the unmodded game, this is most evident when you backstab a high level mage and he dies but then fires off a bunch of Spell Triggers/Sequencers. This can also happen when the game is reloaded and a dead spellcaster is nearby.

[DavidW]

@Arkain: I can't reproduce the behaviour you're describing for the fire giants: on my install they just buff and get in. Want to post your WEIDU.log?

 

The Imix/Burning Men thing is a bug, obviously; fixed locally. Thanks.

 

If Beginner’s Guide to BG2 Scripting (by Goran Rimen and Yovaneth Scet) is correct, then it's 50% chance actually.

 

Well, in that case it's really really way too much.

 

I'd really like to see it toned down to reasonable levels.

 

The vanilla game is 100%

... but sure, you're probably right, though equally I think your 10% is too low.

[Guest Guest]

Yay. So Fade gulps an invisiblity potion and the Yuan - ti ... all run off and rush my party, who were waiting on the other side of the map and who the Yuan - ti had never seen in their lives, with the mages dimension dooring right on top of Aerie and Keldorn.

 

That's slightly suboptimal, I agree. To some extent I blame the game engine: it's not that easy to intelligently handle situations where people drop out of sight. But I should probably see if it can be tuned a bit. (Your style isn't one I've used much myself, so it's not an oddity I'd have seen myself.)

 

This regularly happened in each of my playthroughs too and was quite annoying. Everytime I scouted with an invisible charachter enemies would make a beeline for the rest of my party, which made stealth almost impossible to use.

[Salk]

If Beginner’s Guide to BG2 Scripting (by Goran Rimen and Yovaneth Scet) is correct, then it's 50% chance actually.

 

Well, in that case it's really really way too much.

 

I'd really like to see it toned down to reasonable levels.

 

The vanilla game is 100%

... but sure, you're probably right, though equally I think your 10% is too low.

 

Well, what about a 20% as compromise?

 

(*G* I feel like I am haggling over some price here...)

[DavidW]

Yay. So Fade gulps an invisiblity potion and the Yuan - ti ... all run off and rush my party, who were waiting on the other side of the map and who the Yuan - ti had never seen in their lives, with the mages dimension dooring right on top of Aerie and Keldorn.

 

That's slightly suboptimal, I agree. To some extent I blame the game engine: it's not that easy to intelligently handle situations where people drop out of sight. But I should probably see if it can be tuned a bit. (Your style isn't one I've used much myself, so it's not an oddity I'd have seen myself.)

 

This regularly happened in each of my playthroughs too and was quite annoying. Everytime I scouted with an invisible charachter enemies would make a beeline for the rest of my party, which made stealth almost impossible to use.

 

If that's happening, it's a different bug, and one I can't reproduce locally - so probably something to do with interaction with other mods. The issue reported in the earlier post occurs when enemies see a character and then lose sight of him. If you are just scouting, and so don't get seen at all, that shouldn't lead to them teleporting.

[Arkain]

@Arkain: I can't reproduce the behaviour you're describing for the fire giants: on my install they just buff and get in. Want to post your WEIDU.log?

 

[...]

 

I don't think it's related to any mod incompatibilities. I just tried it on a clean installation with only SCSII and the same happened. They buff with maybe one or two potions and start raging. Then they start to attack me. But as soon as they trigger their Hardiness they start to run away.

I think the dragon included in the improved fire giant temple component (nice idea, by the way) behaved suboptimal as well. After a certain routine, like using a Spell Sequencer or some such he just stood there. No melee or anything. Every few rounds there was a breath attack but that's about it. I guess there were wing buffet attacks as well, but those were likely reflected or absorbed by my protections.

 

Two theories why this might happen:

1. Maybe there is a scripting block which makes an enemy flee and/or search for another target if the current one seems to be too strong or maybe invulnerable at the moment. It's a solo character so that might be the case. In truth the giants aren't fleeing but trying to switch the target. I got this idea because I'm quite sure they attacked creatures I summoned while they were "running away" to have more hands to attack them. On the other hand it might have been random. I don't know what Ilyich faced while soloing however I guess it was a different experience.

Honestly spekaing: it feels a bit stupid to try to nuke them to hell as fast as possible when they're clustered or to use disabling spells so I don't have to run after them for all eternity. If the summoning issue proves to be correct it also feels quite stupid having to summon creatures so actual battle can take place.

2. I'm using Baldurdash. Given that SCSII is made for games with Fixpack installed this might be a problem. Although I can hardly imagine why.

 

Due to me being neither a modder nor having experience with scripting I have no idea whether these ideas are even a bit correct or just complete nonsense.

[DavidW]

Are you protected from magic weapons?

 

If so, they won't attack you.

[Arkain]

I tried to avoid that because I expected such behavior. I'm not too sure if I sticked to it while testing around but I'm quite certain that I wasn't pfmwed when some of the giants began running around after using Hardiness. Maybe stoneskinned. And this wouldn't explain why they don't start to attack me as soon as the protection wears of. Looks like I have to look into that matter again.

 

Corresponds with my first theory though. There is no other legal target and so they start running around instead. I'll test it with a party game.

 

[edit] Okay... works just fine with a party. I was almost like "Bloody hell, it's, uh... challenging and stuff!"

Seems like it isn't a good idea to solo the game with an arcane caster if SCSII is installed. [/edit]

[Arkain]

I've played some more and just finished WK level 3. Well, there are two things which piqued my curiosity. The first is the Demon Wraith in the room just before Aesgareth, the second is the latter himself. While fighting him I noticed a huge number of Timestop spells being used and took a look at him afterwards. I found some normal looking spells and some high level spells. The high level spells consisted of 19 Symbols (Stun), ADHWs, Timestops and Wail of the Banshees each . Wow. Quite... a lot. Or is it intended?

As for Aesgareth he used his Minor Spell Trigger, with two Magic Missiles in it, on my djinn. I prepared for a rather hard impact and... saw two missiles. Not two Magic Missile spells (well, that too, I guess), but two actual missiles as in "projectiles". I expected ten, though... Took a look at him as well. As for Magic Missile he only shoots one at his target per casting, as if his caster level was one or two. On the other hand he got eight images after using Mirror Image which implies a higher caster level. You might want to take a look at it.

But my installation may just be bugged - maybe others can confirm whether it's the same for them or not?

[DavidW]

I've played some more and just finished WK level 3. Well, there are two things which piqued my curiosity. The first is the Demon Wraith in the room just before Aesgareth, the second is the latter himself. While fighting him I noticed a huge number of Timestop spells being used and took a look at him afterwards. I found some normal looking spells and some high level spells. The high level spells consisted of 19 Symbols (Stun), ADHWs, Timestops and Wail of the Banshees each . Wow. Quite... a lot. Or is it intended?

As for Aesgareth he used his Minor Spell Trigger, with two Magic Missiles in it, on my djinn. I prepared for a rather hard impact and... saw two missiles. Not two Magic Missile spells (well, that too, I guess), but two actual missiles as in "projectiles". I expected ten, though... Took a look at him as well. As for Magic Missile he only shoots one at his target per casting, as if his caster level was one or two. On the other hand he got eight images after using Mirror Image which implies a higher caster level. You might want to take a look at it.

But my installation may just be bugged - maybe others can confirm whether it's the same for them or not?

 

I can't reproduce the problems with the Demon Wraith, on my install he's only got one of each. Aesgareth is flagged as TANARI rather than mage and so only casts at 1st level; that's a vanilla-game bug technically I guess, but one that only really shows up in SCSII. I'll fix it. Thanks.

[Arkain]

I had some problems while installing the smarter mages component (WeiDU crashes and the like are fun), so that might explain why he has more spells than he should have. Still strange that it happens only with that particular enemy. Maybe it's just some random bug. Anyway, it's related to my installation then.

[Bearwere]

As with SCS, enemies above a certain minimum intelligence will usually prioritise opponents who are not stunned, held or otherwise helpless. From their point of view, they're fighting to win, and if they kill all non-helpless opponents they can finish off the helpless ones at their leisure.

while it's true for mages, beacause saving throws don't seem to depend on creature's state, fighters do better killing helpless. Usually it takes at least several rounds to kill a conscious creature, and less then one to kill a stunned one, beacause of substantional AC penalties they get. Otherwise, they wake up and chance to kill them swiftly slips away. In general, I always target helpless (doesn't include misled or such) with melee/arrows and concsious ones with spells. This strategy works much better for me. Not that your implementation is bad, it's just some info for you to consider if you want.