Has anyone tried using Song and Silence with this?

[Bursk]

I've made a post in the Song and Silence forum - http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=12459 - but thought it'd be wise to mention it here as well, to see if anyone else has used the two mods successfully.

 

It's quite possible that my short bow issue is due to S&S, but maybe the skill points oddity is something to do with L1NPCs.

 

Edit: Although I've just realised that I no longer have L1NPCs installed, yet I'm still getting the skill points issue.

 

Further Edit: I uninstalled S&S, reinstalled L1NPCs and have got that weird -5 skillpoints issue again. Maybe my install of the game is just borked somehow.

[Drew]

I've used both together since this was an early beta. I've never personally experienced any skill point weirdness on character generation, and I'm skeptical of this mod causing such a problem.

[Nythrun]

Song & Silence is one of the mods I checked for compatibility with; never had any problems with it.

 

Swashbucklers in the unmodded game can't specialize in katanas but can in some missile weapons. This is a bug which is fixed in Song & Silence (among other places), assuming I'm recalling correctly. Level One NPCs no longer bothers correcting bugs

 

I hate to ask the "Did you turn the power on?" questions, because they always make people feel inordinately foolish, but how was the dexterity on those bumbling thieves? A nine or a ten would grant penalties like the ones you're describing.

[Bursk]

A nine or a ten would grant penalties like the ones you're describing.

It would? Oh.

 

I'll have to run some more tests (perhaps on my stupid self).

 

I have made another post in the S&S forum - http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?s...mp;#entry106983 - but perhaps you've found the answer for me.

 

According to the S&S readme, a swashbuckler should be able to put 2* in short bow (plus a couple of other ranged weapons). Does anyone here have it installed, and can check for me if this is possible with v2 of S&S (I appreciate that this isn't the S&S forum)?

[Nythrun]

I don't have anything installed at the moment, but the Song & Silence .tp2 ought to be doing this, where the last number indicates maximum proficiency stars:

SET_2DA_ENTRY 13 42 10 ~2~ //Swashbucklers, katanas
 SET_2DA_ENTRY 23 42 10 ~1~ //Swashbucklers, crossbows
 SET_2DA_ENTRY 25 42 10 ~1~ //Swashbucklers, short bows
 SET_2DA_ENTRY 27 42 10 ~1~ //Swashbucklers, slings

[Bursk]

I don't have anything installed at the moment, but the Song & Silence .tp2 ought to be doing this, where the last number indicates maximum proficiency stars:

SET_2DA_ENTRY 13 42 10 ~2~ //Swashbucklers, katanas
 SET_2DA_ENTRY 23 42 10 ~1~ //Swashbucklers, crossbows
 SET_2DA_ENTRY 25 42 10 ~1~ //Swashbucklers, short bows
 SET_2DA_ENTRY 27 42 10 ~1~ //Swashbucklers, slings

Yeah, I guess I must've been wrong about S&S allowing 2* in short bow. I thought v1 allowed this, but I guess I was wrong (again).

 

The good news is that you were right about the dex producing the negative skill points. I guess I've never seen it before because I've always maxed-out my dex when playing a thief, whereas on this occasion I was just quickly zipping through char creation.

 

I have been doing some testing in the last hour, and have found some things of note in both S&S and L1NPCs (where S&S kits are installed).

 

I'll make a post here in a little while, once I've finished what I'm doing.

 

Oh, and thanks for solving this puzzle for me!

[Bursk]

I've updated my post in the S&S forum, with some stuff related to that mod, in case anyone's interested.

 

Regarding Level 1 NPCs, I have some questions about the mod. They're based on the following mod installation:

 

// Log of Currently Installed WeiDU Mods

// The top of the file is the 'oldest' mod

// ~TP2_File~ #language_number #component_number // [subcomponent Name -> ] Component Name

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #0 // BG2 Fixpack - Core Fixes

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #1 // BG2 Fixpack - Game Text Update

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #2 // Super Happy Fun Lucky Modder Pack

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #100 // Party Gets XP for Sending Keldorn to Reconcile With Maria

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #101 // Improved Spell Animations

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #102 // Cromwell's Forging Actually Takes a Day

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #103 // Mixed-Use Dagger Fixes

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #104 // Ghreyfain's Holy Symbol Fixes

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #106 // Giants Receive Penalties When Attacking Halflings, Dwarves, and Gnomes

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #107 // Remove Dual-Classing Restriction from Archers and Stalkers

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #108 // Remove Second Attribute Bonus for Evil Path in Wrath Hell Trial

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #109 // Corrected Summoned Demon Behavior

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #110 // Additional Script Fixes

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #111 // Bard Song Fixes

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #112 // Wizard Slayers Cause Miscast Magic on Ranged Attacks

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #113 // Additional Alignment Fixes

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #114 // Change Free Action to Protect Against Stun

~SETUP-MINSCKIT.TP2~ #0 #0 // Add berserker kit

~SETUP-MINSCKIT.TP2~ #0 #1 // Berserker Minsc

~SETUP-SONG_AND_SILENCE.TP2~ #0 #0 // Changes to trueclass bards and thieves, and unmodded game kits (required for other components)

~SETUP-SONG_AND_SILENCE.TP2~ #0 #1 // Add new bardic store and thief items

~SETUP-SONG_AND_SILENCE.TP2~ #0 #7 // Install Burglar thief kit

~SETUP-SONG_AND_SILENCE.TP2~ #0 #9 // Install Sharpshooter thief kit

~LEVEL1NPCS/LEVEL1NPCS.TP2~ #0 #0 // Nythrun's L1 NPCs, Beta 6, Oct 19, 2007: List party-joinable NPCs (required to install any other components)

~LEVEL1NPCS/LEVEL1NPCS.TP2~ #0 #1 // Tweak weapon proficiencies for some classes (a la Ashes of Embers and aVENGER's Rogue Rebalancing?

~LEVEL1NPCS/LEVEL1NPCS.TP2~ #0 #3 // Joinable NPCs more closely match the player character's experience?

~LEVEL1NPCS/LEVEL1NPCS.TP2~ #0 #1206 // Imoen

~LEVEL1NPCS/LEVEL1NPCS.TP2~ #0 #1212 // Minsc

 

When I came to the 'Tweak weapon proficiencies...' section I choose the following options:

 

Allow clerics one star in any weapon type a fighter can use

Allow druids one star in any weapon type a fighter can use

Allow thieves, mages, and bards to place one star in any weapon type

Allow thieves and thief multi-classes three stars in dual-wielding

Make quarterstaves unusable for backstabbing

 

'Allow thieves, mages, and bards to place one star in any weapon type' isn't listed in the readme. I spent ages looking at the available options in the readme and said to myself "Why can't they have an option (or combination of) that makes it like Ashes of Embers?".

 

Under the 'Not Usable By' section of weapon descriptions when playing the game, should it state that monks can't use a weapon (where applicable) or do we just assume that the monk can't use it based on their class description? This is purely cosmetic, I know.

 

I haven't managed to test this myself yet, so maybe someone can tell me: what happens if 'Rebalanced Weapon Proficiencies' from BG2 Tweaks is installed prior to Level 1 NPCs? Will these changes to the items and their in-game descriptions still apply, or will Level 1 NPCs change them back to their defaults:

 

* Wakizashis move from Wakizashi/Scimitar/Ninja-to to Katana proficiency

* Ninja-tos move from Wakizashi/Scimitar/Ninja-to to Short Sword proficiency

* Morningstars move from Flail/Morningstar to Mace proficiency

 

The 'Restrict Fighter/Druids from armours single class Druids cannot wear' component, does this do the same thing as Divine Remix (which I believe does this by default)? If so, is there any advantage to having this component installed if Divine Remix is also installed?

 

Finally, I found that the Burglar and Sharpshooter thief kits from S&S didn't allow me to put a * in every proficiency, whereas I could with the stock thief kits i.e. the S&S kits seems to be conforming to the old rules, rather than those implemented by Level 1 NPCs . I haven't had a chance yet to try installing another mod that add kits e.g. Divine Remix, before Level 1 NPCs and seeing if I can put a * in any proficiency with the kits it adds.

 

Oh, and Berserker Minsc works great with this mod.

 

I hope all this is helpful. I'll try Divine Remix later on this evening and report back.

[Azazello]

Bursk, are you going to fulfill your wish, Nalia-as-Thief?

[Miloch]

I guess we should add more to add to the Q&A, once we come up with the "A" part...

[Bursk]

I've not had a chance yet to test the Divine Remix kits. I'm sure it'll be sorted eventually (provided the problem isn't my end), but I really do hope that the S&S kits can be made to work correctly with Level One NPCs.

 

Azazello, interesting you should ask that since I've been giving some thought as to what class/kit changes, if any, to make to the NPCs in BG and BG2. I will probably post a topic at some point asking for ideas, as well as listing my own. I'll be looking for logical changes, as well as those that don't clash with the NPC's story/dialogue/events in the game. Level One NPCs is certainly one of the most exciting mods to appear in a long time, IMO.

[Nythrun]

Thanks much for writing this.

• Thieves, Bards, and Mages can have one star in anything not appearing in the readme:
  

Oops, sorry about that. Fixed locally for V1.

• Monk unusabilities not indicated in item descriptions:
  

In the unmodded game, Monk restrictions are almost always not included in the descriptions of item types that Monks can never equip. Baldurdash and the Fixpack GTU both add the somewhat redundant mention of Monks to all and sundry - I did not include any such business in this version. If CamDawg decides to retain this description appendage in the next version of the Fixpack, I'll probably add it in here as well.

• What happens if 'Rebalanced Weapon Proficiencies' from BG2 Tweaks is installed prior to Level 1 NPCs?
  

It ought to work as expected, with items using the Tweaks-modified descriptions and proficiencies. While I've not tested it myself, pretty much everything in Tweaks is coded with an eye towards compatibility

• Is there any advantage to having 'Restrict Fighter/Druids from armours single class Druids cannot wear' installed if Divine Remix is also installed?
  

Nope - they ought to be functionally identical. I can block the option from appearing at all in Divine Remix installs if you'd prefer.

• Mod-added kits aren't getting the more generous proficiency allotments that Level One NPCs doles out.
  

This had been intentional, it's not at all uncommon for someone to balance a kit by restricting weapon use, and I've no real way of discerning whether a restriction is and integral part of a kit's flavor or just conformity to the norm.

With that said, I'm starting to think it's a mistake - it has to be more incongruous for a player to find some kits off beating their own drums that it would be for a kit to place one whole star in a restricted weapon type. It's likely to make other people's work stand out as mod-added, which is deplorable. More feedback on this point would be welcome (hint, hint).

[Bursk]

Nythrun, I'm glad I could assist.

 

Thanks to the rain and 70 mph winds outside I've managed to get more testing done. The good news is that the Rebalanced Weapon Proficiencies descriptions during character generation remain with Level One NPCs installed after BG2 Tweaks. Also, in-game items keep their Rebalanced Weapon Proficiencies descriptions (e.g. short sword/ninja-to) and their Level One NPCs usability (e.g. Imoen can use a war hammer - badly) and descriptions (i.e. 'not usable by' is blank for the correct weapons). I obviously haven't tested every weapon, but it does look like these two are fully compatible with each other. Yay! I do think it'd be worth making a note of this in the FAQ, just so other people won't have to wonder about it.

 

While I was testing this I found that the Priest of Lathander couldn't put a * into all proficiencies. I'm guessing it's still using the old cleric rules. I then went through every vanilla BG2 kit to check them too, but it was only the Lathander one that didn't seem to be working properly. I uninstalled Rebalanced Weapon Proficiencies to make sure that it wasn't causing the problem, and the Lathander issue was still there.

 

I would like to see 'Restrict Fighter/Druids from armours single class Druids cannot wear' blocked from appearing if you do already have Divine Remix installed, plus I'd like to see some sort of 'This component contains the same functionality as the one included in Divine Remix etc' added to the readme, just to make things a bit simpler and clearer.

 

I still haven't had a chance to test the Divine Remix kits, but it looks like I don't need to because:

 

Mod-added kits aren't getting the more generous proficiency allotments that Level One NPCs doles out... This had been intentional

 

It never would've occurred to me that this might be intentional. I see where you're coming from, however if someone wants to dick about with weapon proficiencies in the first place, they'll surely want this dickery to apply to every class/kit in their game (monks being the exception). I know I do. They don't call me Dickery Bursk for nothing. Or at all.

[Nythrun]

Okay. You've sold me on the...erm...dickery?

 

Nevermind. I'm coding now!

[Bursk]

Hooray for Nythrun!

 

I did have one further thought regarding this mod, but I'm not even sure it's worth bothering with. Still, here it is:

 

For the 'Joinable NPCs more closely match the PCs experience' would it be possible for the NPC you recruit to gain an additional 15% XP on top of matching yours if you're playing as a Geomantic Sorcerer? But really, I think this is unimportant and probably not worth worrying about.

[Caedwyr]

Actually, you are supposed to start off with 15% less experience. Its one of the disadvantages of the kit (character requires 15% more experience to level up, which is simulated by the 15% experience earned penalty)