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[Guest Thailog]

I was also unpleasantly surprised to see that the upgraded Mace of Disruption no longer displays the Negative Plane Protection icon.

 

In my view, this is a fairly important immunity and its icon should definitively be displayed on the character's portrait.

[Guest Thailog]

Oh and, just a suggestion, but perhaps eliminating the equipped portrait icons should be moved into an separate, optional component.

 

Personal, I think it serves no purpose and merely hinders the functionality of the gameplay, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

[Guest Banjon]

Considering icon removing for equipped items has been part of Tweaks for years, why would you do it by default without even documenting it? Such an odd thing.

[Demivrgvs]

Considering icon removing for equipped items has been part of Tweaks for years, why would you do it by default without even documenting it? Such an odd thing.

That's because I do need some icons, especially within V3, and TweakPack wouldn't handle that.

 

For example I need Armor of Faith and Skin of the Forest armors to show AoF and Barkskin icons respectively because their effect doesn't stack and actually prevents those spells from being cast on the wearer.

 

Hm, in this particular case, I don't think that would cause any confusion.

 

As far as I can tell, you are using a different portrait icon for the Regeneration spell in SR (looks like a human body) from the one which was used by the Ring of Regeneration in the original game (blue circle).

In this particular case you do have a point because we have two different portrait icons, thus I may restore it, though my reasons about removing most icons still remain.

 

Long story short, I want portrait icons to quickly reminds players about a particular buff still being there (aka not breached nor dispelled) or that they are within the AoE of an aura-like effect (there are quite a few of them within V3). Filling the portrait with tons of icons is only confusing, or at least pointless imo, especially if those icons are of undispellable ever-present effects, or worse they overlap with spells' ones (e.g. Ring of Fire Resistance cannot use ProFire icon imo, nor can an item with magic resistance use Magic Resistance's icon). Not to mention tons of effects don't have an icon at all...why should we have an icon to remember you that such ring grants regen (I know who has the ring, and I know the ring always has regen no matter what), when I have no icon to indicate "immune to x, y, and z spells" or whatever?

 

I guess your point is about making few exceptions for powerful effects like 'regen' or 'lvl drain immunity' but there are many items with more powerful effects and no icon to indicate them, we'd simply create a few exceptions.

 

I was also unpleasantly surprised to see that the upgraded Mace of Disruption no longer displays the Negative Plane Protection icon.

 

In my view, this is a fairly important immunity and its icon should definitively be displayed on the character's portrait.

Are you saying you don't remember who's wielding MoD or what it does unless an icon is there?

 

That being said, this is another rare case where the icon wouldn't overlap with anything else, thus it may be fine restoring it, even if I think it's kinda pointless.

[Guest Thailog]

Are you saying you don't remember who's wielding MoD or what it does unless an icon is there?

 

I sometimes pass it around between my frontliners when they are fighting vampires and it's easiest to tell who's currently holding it by looking at their portraits.

[Guest Thailog]

Some more observations:

 

- The Shield of Balduran doesn't seem to reflect the Anti-Magic ray of the Beholders. Intended or bug?

- The Rift Hammer inventory icon looks strange, it seems to have a pink outline.

- The Full Plate +2 obtained from the Limited Wish spell is severely underpriced. Honestly, I don't see why it should be. It's a real item in every way, you use a powerful spell to conjure it up and this can be done only once. In my view, it should have the same price as a regular Full Plate +2.

- Carsomyr and the Staff of the Magi seem to have been nerfed a bit too much. While I understand and appreciate the logic behind the "Total Enchantment Bonus < 6" approach, you should take into account that certain items are not simply magical, they are supposed to be artifacts. To clarify, in D&D 3.5 where this approach seems to have originated, artifacts are in a separate category from regular magic items and are not subject to the standard enchantment level calculation rules.

[Demivrgvs]

- The Shield of Balduran doesn't seem to reflect the Anti-Magic ray of the Beholders. Intended or bug?

It's not caused by IR, but I guess it's intended, be it caused by SCS or not.

 

- The Rift Hammer inventory icon looks strange, it seems to have a pink outline.

This come up tons of times during these years and everytime I'm not 100% sure which mod causes it. It should be either Bg2 FixPack or TweakPack, which for some reason alter ihamm05.bam. Within V3 I overwrite such bam with the original one to fix it on my side (at least players will stop thinking it's my fault ), but you can easily fix it by deleting ihamm05.bam from your override folder (which will restore vanilla's bam).

 

Now that you mention it, I could have just as easily added vanilla's ihamm05.bam within the hotfixes to stop this issue, though fixing its source would obviously be better.

 

- The Full Plate +2 obtained from the Limited Wish spell is severely underpriced. Honestly, I don't see why it should be. It's a real item in every way, you use a powerful spell to conjure it up and this can be done only once. In my view, it should have the same price as a regular Full Plate +2.

You're right, it's a vanilla's thing I simply didn't changed back then.

 

- Carsomyr and the Staff of the Magi seem to have been nerfed a bit too much. While I understand and appreciate the logic behind the "Total Enchantment Bonus < 6" approach, you should take into account that certain items are not simply magical, they are supposed to be artifacts. To clarify, in D&D 3.5 where this approach seems to have originated, artifacts are in a separate category from regular magic items and are not subject to the standard enchantment level calculation rules.

Yeah, but this is not PnP, and there's no DM rebalancing your game after letting you get those artifacts. Within vanilla BG those weapons were simply so powerful to make every other weapon choice pathetic, forcing every paladin to use 2handed swords, and every party to dream having a paladin.

 

Both items are still much more powerful than any other weapon of the same type, exactly because I still consider them artifacts (much like Crom Faeyr is still sligthly OP). I haven't removed any defining feature other than the broken uber exploitable SotM's permanent invisibility at will. Their "nerf" makes all the other weapons slightly more appealing (though none of them can compare), while also keeping the game more balanced (I always felt I was cheating using vanilla Carsomyr's 100% dispel on each hit, as it made all fights vs spellcasters pretty much trivial, even more so when wielded by an Inquisitor).

 

Let's take Carsomyr for example:

- Base Enchantment +4 (+5 later on)

- Dispelling +2 bonus

- Holy +1 bonus

- Magic Resistance +3 bonus (generally each +5% counts as a +1 bonus, but this is a 2handed weapon and IR tries to "favour" them).

- 2xday Dispel (I don't consider it a +x bonus, but I cannot ignore it either)

Long story short, this weapon is already a +10 item as soon as you get it, while all the other most powerful 2handed weapons within SoA are +5 or +6 (e.g. Soul Reaver was the only +7 within V2, but it's +6 within V3), and even the artifact-lvl ones like The Wave and the Silver Sword are "only" +7.

 

That being said, what makes you feel these weapons are not enough powerful? What do you miss?

 

P.S Why don't you join us and stop being a guest?

[Thailog]

That being said, what makes you feel these weapons are not enough powerful? What do you miss?

 

I was mainly referring to the save vs. dispel thing. That just feels wrong. At high levels, even an Inquisitor's dispel magic almost never works against SCS's mages and the save which was added to the weapons' version makes it even more worthless.

 

Here's an idea, how about changing the staff and Carsomyr dispel at the wielder's level with no save instead? That way, a level 20 mage/paladin would actually have a fair chance against similarly high level opponents while the ability would still be balanced at lower levels. As I recall, that's how it's supposed to work in P&P anyway.

 

Also, Carsomyr's bonus damage vs. evil is pitiful. Together with the nerfed magic resistance, it now feels like yet another magical sword and not a holy relic worthy of being liberated from the clutches of a Red Dragon.

 

 

P.S Why don't you join us and stop being a guest?

 

Done!

 

 

P.S.

 

Just wanted to add this, characters wearing IR's full Red Dragon armor/shield/helm/sword set look simply awesome. Great work on matching the colors together. I especially like the golden insignia on the chest.

[Guest T]

I've only played an IR installation to Chapter 4 of SoA, but I wanted to provide some feedback while I'm thinking about it since I'm heading out of town tonight and won't return to the game for awhile.

 

Overall I've really enjoyed the mod so far. Everything seems to have received so much thought and attention; in particular the balancing is really great. I've enjoyed reading the descriptions for even the items I would never use with my party. The only specific issues I've had so far are:

 

- The items that arcane casters can use tend to be better for mages than sorcerers. Overall I think the mod might be a little sorcerer-unfriendly. It's mostly an issue since the items like the Amulet of Power that allow you to memorize extra spells each level are a huge boon to mages but not such a big deal for sorcs. Moreover, I've had a little trouble finding interesting robes now that Larloch's Robe is in ToB, and until I reached Brynnlaw I couldn't find an interesting staff (although I put off the Windspear Hills for after I return from Spellhold, so maybe there's one there).

 

- A minor point: I was a little unhappy with the Traveller's Robe that Aerie comes with. The movement bonus just seems geared towards kiting; in vanilla, the Boots of Speed that enable kiting come much later. With SCS2 it's a bigger issue, since enemies use Oils of Speed and w/ the robe, either hasted-Aerie travels slower or faster than they do. It wouldn't bother me if TRs were just items in shops, but as it's the robe Aerie has I feel a little boxed-in since I either have to spend money to replace it or just have her go robeless. Also I just dislike having party members move at different rates.

 

- The Rod of Fire's fireball penetrates a Minor Globe of Invulnerability, much to my surprise!

 

- My absolute biggest gripe is the partial use of 1PP. I can stomach those medium shields when I don't have 1PP at all, since in the context of the rest of vanilla's art they don't stand out too much and graphics aren't my biggest concern. When they're mixed in together with 1PP's artwork it's very grating and irritating (and I don't even use medium shields!). I don't understand what value it adds to prevent the user from having a full 1PP installation. It's just my opinion, but I would rather the mod use the entirety of 1PP or not at all.

 

Many thanks for all your wonderful work.

[Guest Guest]

Sorry, I meant to say that Aerie either travels slower than they do or she hastes and travels faster (letting her kite).

[Demivrgvs]

- The items that arcane casters can use tend to be better for mages than sorcerers. Overall I think the mod might be a little sorcerer-unfriendly. It's mostly an issue since the items like the Amulet of Power that allow you to memorize extra spells each level are a huge boon to mages but not such a big deal for sorcs.

Mmm...I'm not sure I can agree on this. I don't see why +1 spell per lvl should be so much better for mages than sorcerers. Mages get to memorize one more specific spell per day, adding more versatility (in theory, because multiple instances of the same spell are very common for mages too), but sorcerers get +1 use per day of ANY of their spells. The end result is an enhanced difference between the two classes (versatility vs "raw power"), but both of them pretty much gain the saim imo. I'd be curious to know what other players think about this.

 

That being said, are there other items or effects you think are better suited for mages than sorcerers? I actually don't know what effect could benefit more one class than the other, is there any?

 

Moreover, I've had a little trouble finding interesting robes now that Larloch's Robe is in ToB, and until I reached Brynnlaw I couldn't find an interesting staff (although I put off the Windspear Hills for after I return from Spellhold, so maybe there's one there).

Robes are much better handled within V3, you'll see. Regarding staves instead I don't know, Staff of Power is pretty much THE spellcaster choice for SoA until mid-late game. Within V3 Staff of Command is going to be very powerful for Enchanters and spellcasters in general if oriented toward using many enchantments.

 

If you're just saying that most early game staves seem more combat-oriented you're right, and I'll try to think about a spellcaster-oriented concept for an early game staff, which could eventually replce Cleric's Staff considering very few players like it.

 

- A minor point: I was a little unhappy with the Traveller's Robe that Aerie comes with. The movement bonus just seems geared towards kiting; in vanilla, the Boots of Speed that enable kiting come much later. With SCS2 it's a bigger issue, since enemies use Oils of Speed and w/ the robe, either hasted-Aerie travels slower or faster than they do. It wouldn't bother me if TRs were just items in shops, but as it's the robe Aerie has I feel a little boxed-in since I either have to spend money to replace it or just have her go robeless. Also I just dislike having party members move at different rates.

I'm not sure I get what "kiting" means, and in particular why being faster than your opponent is a problem instead of an advantage. Care to explain?

 

- The Rod of Fire's fireball penetrates a Minor Globe of Invulnerability, much to my surprise!

Ohh, will fix that, thanks for pointing it out. Anyway, just to clarify, (M)GoI do protects from fireballs cast from this wand, it doesn't work when the caster protected by the globe cast the fireball himself. Long story short, the problem isn't the wand, but the globe.

 

- My absolute biggest gripe is the partial use of 1PP. I can stomach those medium shields when I don't have 1PP at all, since in the context of the rest of vanilla's art they don't stand out too much and graphics aren't my biggest concern. When they're mixed in together with 1PP's artwork it's very grating and irritating (and I don't even use medium shields!). I don't understand what value it adds to prevent the user from having a full 1PP installation. It's just my opinion, but I would rather the mod use the entirety of 1PP or not at all.

Within V3 I've almost re-worked on shields A LOT, and that includes adding 1PP medium shields animation to the mix (e.g. Shield of Mirrors, aka the old Shield of Balduran, uses 1PP BG1 medium shield animation), but most shields within IR still uses BG2 animation for a simple reason: I don't have inventory and carried icons to match 1PP shields. I have only a bunch of BG1 icons for them (and eventually a bunch from IWD that doesn't perfectly suit) but they can be used only for non-unique shields (aka BG1 shields) and in certain cases they wouldn't suit the shield anyway (e.g. Dragonscale shield uses a custom 1PP inventory icon which really cannot use BG1 medium shield animation).

 

I'd like to point out that I'm actually using more 1PP material than the official 1PP "legacy shield" set of animations itself (which refers only to BG1 shields), as I'm also using all of Erephine's previous work on BG2 shields.

 

Anyway, BG1 medium animation is now included within IR, and thus I can eventually extend its use (e.g. making all common 'medium shields' or 'medium shield +1' use it), but for unique BG2 shields I would need yarpen or anyone else create good bams for them before even thinking about doing the change.

 

P.S I actually like BG2 medium shields as much as BG1 ones, I don't have any preference.

[Kalindor]

I don't see why +1 spell per lvl should be so much better for mages than sorcerers. Mages get to memorize one more specific spell per day, adding more versatility (in theory, because multiple instances of the same spell are very common for mages too), but sorcerers get +1 use per day of ANY of their spells. The end result is an enhanced difference between the two classes (versatility vs "raw power"), but both of them pretty much gain the saim imo. I'd be curious to know what other players think about this.

 

I do not feel that it benefits mages vs. sorcerers unduly. If it granted the sorcerer +1 spell choices, then it would be very much more beneficial to the sorcerer rather than the mage. It seems fine to me.

 

That being said, are there other items or effects you think are better suited for mages than sorcerers? I actually don't know what effect could benefit more one class than the other, is there any?

 

I hope that kit revisions will make some effort to distinguish the two classes a little more thoroughly.

 

I'm not sure I get what "kiting" means, and in particular why being faster than your opponent is a problem instead of an advantage. Care to explain?

 

"Kiting" is crpg lingo for running from a foe that moves at most as fast as you. This often leads them to following your character as if he is flying them like a kite.

I am not sure what the complaint is asking for, however.

[Jarno Mikkola]

I do not feel that it benefits mages vs. sorcerers unduly. If it granted the sorcerer +1 spell choices, then it would be very much more beneficial to the sorcerer rather than the mage. It seems fine to me.

You do realize that that's impossible to do, so that it actually works for a ring.

 

That being said, are there other items or effects you think are better suited for mages than sorcerers? I actually don't know what effect could benefit more one class than the other, is there any?

Easy, you just give the wizards free spells. Free learned spells, via the kit's .2da file. The sorcerer will definitely gain more...

Now for mage, once per spell bonuses, like the Familiars hit point bonuses when you don't actually use the creature. ... or a spell that once cast makes a spell scroll from where the same spell can be re-learned.

[Guest T]

Mmm...I'm not sure I can agree on this. I don't see why +1 spell per lvl should be so much better for mages than sorcerers. Mages get to memorize one more specific spell per day, adding more versatility (in theory, because multiple instances of the same spell are very common for mages too), but sorcerers get +1 use per day of ANY of their spells. The end result is an enhanced difference between the two classes (versatility vs "raw power"), but both of them pretty much gain the saim imo. I'd be curious to know what other players think about this.

 

Yeah, I have to disagree. Whereas the sorcerer chooses one spell from a set of ~5, the mage chooses one spell from all spells of that level. The offset for that versatility should be the sorcerer's ability to choose in the midst of battle, but if you're metagaming then it doesn't offset it since the mage can just choose the best spell. If you're sincerely not metagaming then the mage's increase in tactical versatility (which you need if not metagaming) is a much greater benefit in expectation than is a casting that the sorc is necessarily least likely to use in that level and merely duplicates the tactics s/he was already using. So, just my opinion, but either way it doesn't seem to be much contest to my eye. Plus, it seems to me to dilute one of the sorc's class advantages, since it adds a greater percentage increase to the mage's number of castings than it does to the sorc, and the sheer number of castings is one class advantage the sorc has.

 

In any case, in my personal experience at least, my mage characters often use that extra spell, whereas my sorc pc either doesn't or is merely delaying his backup tactics, and so the bonus doesn't really change a battle that much (certainly compared to the mage).

 

That being said, are there other items or effects you think are better suited for mages than sorcerers? I actually don't know what effect could benefit more one class than the other, is there any?

 

Hmmm, do you mean other items the mod already has? The +1-spell-per-level items were the ones that stood out to me, although I see not everyone agrees.

 

Robes are much better handled within V3, you'll see. Regarding staves instead I don't know, Staff of Power is pretty much THE spellcaster choice for SoA until mid-late game. Within V3 Staff of Command is going to be very powerful for Enchanters and spellcasters in general if oriented toward using many enchantments.

 

If you're just saying that most early game staves seem more combat-oriented you're right, and I'll try to think about a spellcaster-oriented concept for an early game staff, which could eventually replce Cleric's Staff considering very few players like it.

 

Good to know, thanks. I actually liked the Cleric's Staff, but I see I'm an oddball on many issues

 

I'm not sure I get what "kiting" means, and in particular why being faster than your opponent is a problem instead of an advantage. Care to explain?

 

Yeah, Kalindor described it correctly. Most crpg communities seem to find it cheesy since it can completely disable melee opponents. I never know where to draw the line on cheese, but the kiting tactic always feels boring to me since it just doesn't feel very tactical to me.

 

The main issue though for me is that her movement rate won't be equal to most opponents - it'll either be faster or slower (if they have haste/OoS and you don't). If it's faster then it invites the silliness of running far enough ahead to cast a spell back at the opponent and keep running - making the melee opponent a cakewalk, and personally I dislike having what's close to an "I win" button even if I don't use it. If it's slower then it's a disadvantage even just for positioning. That's aside from the issue that one character just travels faster than the others do even out of combat, which I find annoying. I would have been fine with the item, since I know other people feel differently, if I weren't stuck having it be the one Aerie comes with. Like I said, though, it's not a big issue and I don't mean to make it seem like one.

 

Ohh, will fix that, thanks for pointing it out. Anyway, just to clarify, (M)GoI do protects from fireballs cast from this wand, it doesn't work when the caster protected by the globe cast the fireball himself. Long story short, the problem isn't the wand, but the globe.

 

Wow, my trusty MGoI, buggy this whole time...?! Thanks.

 

Within V3 I've almost re-worked on shields A LOT, and that includes adding 1PP medium shields animation to the mix (e.g. Shield of Mirrors, aka the old Shield of Balduran, uses 1PP BG1 medium shield animation), but most shields within IR still uses BG2 animation for a simple reason: I don't have inventory and carried icons to match 1PP shields. I have only a bunch of BG1 icons for them (and eventually a bunch from IWD that doesn't perfectly suit) but they can be used only for non-unique shields (aka BG1 shields) and in certain cases they wouldn't suit the shield anyway (e.g. Dragonscale shield uses a custom 1PP inventory icon which really cannot use BG1 medium shield animation).

 

I'd like to point out that I'm actually using more 1PP material than the official 1PP "legacy shield" set of animations itself (which refers only to BG1 shields), as I'm also using all of Erephine's previous work on BG2 shields.

 

Anyway, BG1 medium animation is now included within IR, and thus I can eventually extend its use (e.g. making all common 'medium shields' or 'medium shield +1' use it), but for unique BG2 shields I would need yarpen or anyone else create good bams for them before even thinking about doing the change.

 

Very interesting to know, thanks a lot.

 

And thanks also for you consideration and all the effort you've put into this mod.

[phordicus]

Whereas the sorcerer...

I agree. The sorcerer sacrifices versatility for abundance. Every item that adds daily casting bonuses for a mage steals away that uniqueness and power, and IR has (too?) many of these as it is.