Suggestions thread

[Seff]

The cuir bouilli, is Student Leather Armor, as the description says that it's made by boiling the leather.

Studded Leather Armor? It says it's a soft leather (or skin, if you will) backing used to hold hundreds of rivets. It also says that the plain 'Leather Armor' is a hardened shell, which corresponds with the description of cuir bouilli.

Studded leather would not really have an effect in reality, and replacing it with an effective armor might be better - alternatively, the description could be altered to say that it is a padding reinforced with rivets.

 

but Dex also handles hand-to-eye, which an armor doesn't really affect.

Well, I would like to see you wearing 50 lb Plate Mail, saying and testing that fact.

I don't really lose much of my sense of balance when wearing armor - one needs to get accustomed to it, but it is evenly distributed across my body, so it simply adds more weight - a factor that training can take care of.

What armor DOES is that it makes me tired faster - moving more weight around means more energy spent, of course. I can move my limbs just as fast, but it is indeed more tiring. I won't fall over from exhaustion after five (or fifteen) minutes of melee, but a cross-country trek in armor will make for a good night's sleep.

Another factor in this is that I generally wear a maille hauberk with a breastplate and padding, which isn't as well fitting as real plate armor, thus making plate more bearable in the long run - even if the total weight is higher.

 

 

Example: ...

So you are talking about Damage Threshold, not damage resistance...

 

There might be few damage opcodes used with negative numbers, that might be workable, using different Targets, the Target:8- not self; for example might help, what would be harder, are to make the effect not stackable with each other... and testing is crucial here.

That might be a considerable problem, I must admit It was just wishful thinking, that's all.

 

Heh. For a truly realistic armour system, see Darklands (1993 by Microprose). It has thickness, penetration, weapon & armour quality, targeting vulnerable spots, etc. That system's not practically implementable in this engine at all. (I still might do an experiment for fun, but...)

Sadly yes, but one can't have everything

 

And the decrease-damage-by-a-fixed-number option (damage threshold, thanks Jarno) isn't cleanly doable in the engine either - or, rather, only in Icewind Dale II, which has an opcode for it. Barring interesting discoveries/experiments by Jarno. wink.gif

Addressed above. Makes me sad, since I thought I saw such an effect once - I'll go hunt for it.

 

I'll think on dex penalties vs ac penalties - you make a pretty good case. But: I'm still using AC a little bit for the glance-off factor (8 / 7 / 6). Worsening ACs even more for the common armoured soldier may not be a good idea. And I don't like the idea of longbowmen unhindered by full plate.

I am inclined to let the AC issue slide, since you are right that a longbow man will have a hard time shooting his bow in plate armor (or indeed anything that isn't especially adjusted for it. I see potential for an unique item ), as well as AC being a nice extra factor to play with. Stat-altering just sounds so serious to me

 

I'll digest your thoughts a bit. smile.gif

Likewise As I said, I like the way this is headed.

[Shaitan]

Hi!

 

Some initial thoughts on Full Plate & PS when installed on tutu.

 

Enemies actually wearing their armours ie Black elite talons are even more deadly now.

 

I think it's a nice idea that Ajantis wearing Full Plate Mail walks slower than Kivan (whom I don't give any armour to wear now )

 

Overall I feel that ranged attacks has gained an even bigger advantage: armoured enemies (and players) move slower and most (as far as I've seen) armours don't protect that well against piercing damage. Still I feel your mod doesn't alter too much with balance...

 

BTW do you change the new background stories Demi added to items in BG2 via IR or do you just add extra informations?

 

Cheers

[erik]

Thanks for the feedback!

 

The mod grabs whatever description is active for the item and modifies it with extra information. So whatever has been changed before installing this mod, I try to keep - IR, SpellPack, etc.

 

I imagine Kobold Commandos and other enthusiastic missile users may be somewhat deadly in Tutu now.

[Shaitan]

I'm currently at the Cloackwood and noticed how tough spiders are now...I need more antidots vs. poison

[erik]

Heh, yes. I don't want to think about Bodhi's vampires. (then again, they are pretty leveldraindeadly in vanilla too)

[berelinde]

At the risk of stirring up a tired old debate, I agree with the poster that said that heavy armor won't affect dex all that much, but will have an effect on fatigue. I wonder if it's possible to have the player's fatigue progression increase while wearing armor. I'd say apply a constitution penalty like you are doing to dexterity, but that affects hit points, too, and there's no reason that a character would lose hp while wearing armor.

 

The speed decrease also surprised me. I would have expected a change in walking speed, since, as others have already said, wearing armor is tiring, but I don't see why wearing armor would increase a weapon's speed factor. I've seen guys fight in heavy armor, and they move just as fast with it as they do without it, just not for as long.

[erik]

At the risk of stirring up a tired old debate, I agree with the poster that said that heavy armor won't affect dex all that much, but will have an effect on fatigue. I wonder if it's possible to have the player's fatigue progression increase while wearing armor. I'd say apply a constitution penalty like you are doing to dexterity, but that affects hit points, too, and there's no reason that a character would lose hp while wearing armor.

 

The speed decrease also surprised me. I would have expected a change in walking speed, since, as others have already said, wearing armor is tiring, but I don't see why wearing armor would increase a weapon's speed factor. I've seen guys fight in heavy armor, and they move just as fast with it as they do without it, just not for as long.

 

Stir things up all you want!

 

As for affecting fatigue, I don't really want to apply CON and HP modifiers. Impractically tricky to get right without characters getting hurt for no reason and spilling their guts. I _may_ be able to script something increasing fatigue on a timer... hmm. Will get back to you on that.

 

DEX modifiers may be a little high at the moment. Suggestions?

 

Weapon speed factor ... does it hurt in-game, practically? I'm curious. Has anyone done any research whether there are other factors influencing it, like DEX?

 

And as for reasoning - when you consider it in initiative terms, it may make more sense. Reacting fast is more difficult when encumbered, yes? The weapon may move just as fast, but getting ready to attack wearing heavy plates of metal may not be as quick...

 

I may adjust that factor as well, no problem, it's still a first shot at it... taking suggestions

 

(edit: I may be persuaded to edit them down towards the values here, for example, or a compromise. It was my inspiration for this bit anyway.)

[Icendoan]

I, at first, thought about a delayed effect which applies Fatigue, if that exists, but it would be cured by removing the armour and replacing it.

 

You could, in all the DPLAYER*.bcs add a delayed effect which sets a global, but gets erased after rest, or (ugh) BALDUR(25).bcs could be effective as well.

 

Icen

[Guest Guest CJ]

Just a quick question, but when you wear the guantlets of dexterity that set your dex to 18 does the armor still bring your dex down or do those gauntlets offset that

[Icendoan]

Ahm, depends when you equip your armour...

 

Icen

[erik]

Ahm, depends when you equip your armour...

 

Actually, in my ToB testing just now it just works. DEX is decreased, no matter what order you equip armor and gauntlets in. Try it. (CreateItem BRAC07)

[Icendoan]

I would have thought, due to teh IESDP's section on Effect Application Order, that would change on load?

 

Icen

[erik]

The sad reality of armors is that they have a very clear evolution, and as such there is no benefit (besides cost; only applicable for enemies for 90% of the game) of wearing maille instead of plate armor. I would move towards realism by reducing the movement penalty for armors, but having them (if possible) induce fatigue faster, the heavier they get.

 

True - in real life there is a clear progression. In the Forgotten Realms, however, it's not necessarily so. Magic and enchantment changes the equation.

 

As for fatigue, that's in testing at the moment.

[ragnar-gd]

I'm open to suggestions. Something you think should be tweaked up/down? Additional effects? (1% magic damage resistance per +1 enchantment, for example) Items that should be reclassified? Fancy effects I've missed that should be changed as well?

 

Your ideas are fine - but there are venerable PnP games that are far beyond xD&D regarding "realism" (whatever that is in an rpg).

Just to keep your ideas coming, read the preview-downloads of the last edition of RuneQuest:

 

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/rpg/series.php?qsSeries=39

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/forum.php

 

The 2nd-most popular rpg in the U.S. for years, existing since three years after xD&D.

No Classes, No Levels, No Long Red hitpoint-bars, no Experience-points, No Armour Class.

Instead: Skill-based system, hit-location/wound based combat, armour absorbs damage, you can actually parry and dodge blows, cultural background determines skill-selection, everyone can wear every armor or wield every weapon or can learn every skill or can use any item or can cast every spell - if s/he comes from the correct background, and lives long enough to *learn* that skill(s) good enough.

 

And every damn Dragon will eat any adventurer-band for lunch in close combat, always. And any good archer can kill any living creature (i.e. a dragon) with a good shot, without inventing extra-rules.

 

You have to read it to believe it, if you know no other system than xD&D... ;-)

[erik]

Heh. I'm familiar with a few dozen pen&paper systems, thank you, by doing tabletop gaming since 1991. I even reference them in the readme. I like HeroQuest, where skills and teamwork is king and equipment (mostly) rather less so. Have played and storyguided a few Swedish rpgs based on an old edition of Runequest. And Riddle of Steel, Khelataar and friends are scarily realistic and deadly - that deadliness would be out of place in BG2. Mostly because the adventuring party would be crippled after a few fights and totally splattered by a fireball or three.

 

So. Anything in particular you were thinking? Lots of things can be done. Many things don't make sense in the given campaign world of BG2, but can be tried nevertheless.

 

We are limited as to how much we can change the rules by the game engine. It is pretty flexible, though. I have a feeling that you'd like Ashes of Embers' "Sensible weapons for all classes" component (everyone can learn to use any weapon), combined with igi's learn through use mod (learn weapon skills by doing). Check them out.