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[DrAzTiK]

Reflected Image

 

After some tests, it 's seems the problem (be untouchable) occurs only one a character under reflected image AND luck (or stone luck with item revisions). No not very serious enfin if it's remain strange ^^

 

 

Summining Monster 3 :

 

It seems that description don't match exactly for ogre berseker. Ogre get a thac 8 while description says a thac0 11. And I think Hp are increase a bit at level 12 ?

Ogre mage got +1 profeciency in spears ?

 

But I thinkthe fact to install revisited grand mastery can also be the reason?

 

I try to balance Ogres in my game so I have take a look at yours cre ^^

[Demivrgvs]

Reflected Image

After some tests, it 's seems the problem (be untouchable) occurs only one a character under reflected image AND luck (or stone luck with item revisions). No not very serious enfin if it's remain strange ^^

Ehm...I'll try it.

 

 

Monster Summoning III

It seems that description don't match exactly for ogre berseker.

- Ogre get a thac 8 while description says a thac0 11.

- And I think Hp are increase a bit at level 12 ?

- Ogre mage got +1 profeciency in spears ?

- But I thinkthe fact to install revisited grand mastery can also be the reason?

- Base 16, +3 from STR, +2 from weapon (as it also simulates the weapon proficiency); thus he gets 11 (though enraging grants further bonuses).

- no, because the .cre file is always the same ogregrsu (base hp 42 + 20 from CON)

- eh eh, I don't know why he has it but it's useless; his katana doesn't use weapon proficiency tables

- no, I've intentionally not used "normal" weapons for summons to be sure that the creatures stats remain as per description even if you install any sort of tweak which affects weapons (e.g. different Grandmastery tables)

[DrAzTiK]

- no, I've intentionally not used "normal" weapons for summons to be sure that the creatures stats remain as per description even if you install any sort of tweak which affects weapons (e.g. different Grandmastery tables)

In my game, your ogre got +++ profenciencies in flail/morning stars and it seems bonus affect the cre. (1.5 apE, thac08 or thac06 under berseker rage with your revisited grand mastery)

 

 

??

 

Tested on this installation :

 

// Log of Currently Installed WeiDU Mods

// The top of the file is the 'oldest' mod

// ~TP2_File~ #language_number #component_number // [subcomponent Name -> ] Component Name [ : Version]

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #4 #101 // Animations des sorts amelioree: v8

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #4 #0 // BG2 Fixpack - Correctifs principaux: v8

~ITEM_REV/ITEM_REV.TP2~ #0 #0 // Item Revisions by Demivrgvs: v2 (Hotfix 20091009)

~ITEM_REV/ITEM_REV.TP2~ #0 #1 // Masterwork Weapons: v2 (Hotfix 20091009)

~ITEM_REV/ITEM_REV.TP2~ #0 #6 // Heavy Armor Encumbrance -> Movement Speed and Dexterity Penalties in Heavy Armor: v2 (Hotfix 20091009)

~ITEM_REV/ITEM_REV.TP2~ #0 #10 // Revised Shield Bonuses: v2 (Hotfix 20091009)

~POTION_REV/SETUP-POTION_REV.TP2~ #0 #0 // Potion Revisions by Demivrgvs: Beta 1

~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #0 // Spell Revisions: v3

~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #10 // Deva and Planetar Animations: v3

~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #20 // Mirror Image Fix: v3

~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #30 // Dispel Magic Fix: v3

~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #40 // Cure Sleep Fix: v3

~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #50 // Remove Disabled Spells from Spell Selection Screens: v3

~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #60 // Update Spellbooks of Joinable NPCs: v3

Edited June 17, 2010 by DrAzTiK

[Ardanis]

In my game, your ogre got +++ profenciencies in flail/morning stars and it seems bonus affect the cre. (1.5 apE, thac08 or thac06 under berseker rage with your revisited grand mastery)

Afaik BG2 makes no use of the old proficiency system.

[Demivrgvs]

In my game, your ogre got +++ profenciencies in flail/morning stars and it seems bonus affect the cre. (1.5 apE, thac08 or thac06 under berseker rage with your revisited grand mastery)

Afaik BG2 makes no use of the old proficiency system.

Actually I think the old proficiency system still work, but I may be wrong. The thing is that the Morningstar used by the summoned ogres shouldn't be considered a morningstar (the relative parameter is set to 'unknow - 0' instead of 'proficiencyflailmorningstar -100')... Draz, how do you check the stats to be so sure the cre is affected by it?

[Jarno Mikkola]

Afaik BG2 makes no use of the old proficiency system.

It depends on how the items have been modified, as the old system is still ran in the background... as the Long Sword(sw1h04.itm) can use either Large Sword or Long Sword Proficiency, but not both... and there are mods that make the BG2 items use the old system and then updates the proficiency system to use them too.

 

Draz, how do you check the stats to be so sure the cre is affected by it?

Well, one can check the game play feedback... but one can also check it by force join the creature with a cheat( CTRL+Q ) and then check the creatures stats.

[DrAzTiK]

Yes I use Ctrl+Q

[Ardanis]

Elemental Prince

Description typo - Chan is not prince, she's princess.

 

Storm of Vengeance

The only advantage it has over Fire Storm is party friendliness. The latter deals more damage, lasts longer, and even allows for some PF as well.

 

I couldn't find AD&D 2 reference to it.

Storm of Vengeance

Conjuration (Summoning)

Level: Drd 9, Clr 9

Components: V, S

Casting Time: 1 round

Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)

Effect: 360-ft.-radius storm cloud

Duration: Concentration (maximum 10 rounds) (D)

Saving Throw: See text

Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell creates an enormous black storm cloud. Lightning and crashing claps of thunder appear within the storm. Each creature beneath the cloud must succeed on a Fortitude save or be deafened for 1d4x10 minutes.

If you do not maintain concentration on the spell after casting it, the spell ends. If you continue to concentrate, the spell generates additional effects in each following round, as noted below. Each effect occurs during your turn.

2nd Round: Acid rains down in the area, dealing 1d6 points of acid damage (no save).

3rd Round: You call six bolts of lightning down from the cloud. You decide where the bolts strike. No two bolts may be directed at the same target. Each bolt deals 10d6 points of electricity damage. A creature struck can attempt a Reflex save for half damage.

4th Round: Hailstones rain down in the area, dealing 5d6 points of bludgeoning damage (no save).

5th through 10th Rounds: Violent rain and wind gusts reduce visibility. The rain obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. A creature 5 feet away has concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance). Creatures farther away have total concealment (50% miss chance, and the attacker cannot use sight to locate the target). Speed is reduced by three-quarters.

Ranged attacks within the area of the storm are impossible. Spells cast within the area are disrupted unless the caster succeeds on a Concentration check against a DC equal to the storm of vengeance’s save DC + the level of the spell the caster is trying to cast.

So, maybe increase duration by 1 round and radius to 40'-60'? And add the deafening effect.

Btw, I think it's possible to create the delayed AoE, thus fully matching the PnP description. I'm short of time a bit atm to investigate it further, but when v4 will be in more active development I should have been finished with other projects.

 

Shroud of Flame

Are you sure we need another fire-based spell, especially on 5th level? Sunfire and Vitrolic Sphere, as a damage-over-time spell, would make it non-unique.

Edited June 22, 2010 by Ardanis

[Demivrgvs]

Elemental Prince

Description typo - Chan is not prince, she's princess.

I've just checked Planescape Compendium and you're right, it is a "she".

 

Storm of Vengeance

The only advantage it has over Fire Storm is party friendliness. The latter deals more damage, lasts longer, and even allows for some PF as well.

It's quite difficult to compare the damage output (mainly because of the poison effect that can be completely negated), but Fire Storm surely does more damage yes. Anyway I think it has another considerable advantage on top of party-friendlyness, which is the types of damage it inflicts. Fire Storm uses fire damage, which probably is the most common resistance, and a single 5th lvl spell can protect you from it. Storm of Vengeance deals THREE types of damage, immunity/resistance to those types of damage is less common, and to protect from it you need multiple spells.

 

That being said, if most players agree with you I think that making it lasts 4 rounds like most "storm" spells could be enough...but I may also think about your more complex suggestions.

 

 

Shroud of Flame

Are you sure we need another fire-based spell, especially on 5th level? Sunfire and Vitrolic Sphere, as a damage-over-time spell, would make it non-unique.

Mmm...now that you mention it Vitriolic Sphere and Shroud of Flame are indeed almost the same spell with different damage type. I suggested them mainly because looking at IWD/NWN/PnP they seemed the only two "feasible" replacement spells to fill the two slots. If I had to choose between the two spells I'd vote for the Sphere, because fire-based spells are already uber common.

 

P.S Actually the slot could be only one if we don't disable Spell Immunity after restoring Spell Shield. I was forgetting we planned to finally fix that damn spell!

[Ardanis]

Earthquake

I do understand the reasoning behind it killing things outright. But yesterday I was doing Vithal's quest in Underdark and fought SCS's upgraded earth guardian (who casts Earthquake among the other). On the first try PC died and I had to reload. On the next another man died, with no way to trace the source. On the third - invisible Vithal died.

I took the SPL apart and decided I don't like it much. First, it probably is much more annoying than useful, especially if we consider no party friendliness. Second, immunity to instant death doesn't suggest a creature can't fall few meters down the earth. Hold effect, with extra damage added, seems more in place here - like Implosion, whose animation you've used for the killing effect. Whether or not Free Action should block it, I don't know. I'm 50/50 on it.

 

If you do agree to change it to Hold, then I would suggest to slightly augment other effects as well, since Hold probably will end up being weaker than insta-kill.

 

Energy Blades

Decrease ApR to 5. This is primarily to eliminate the double movement speed caused by blades' Improved Haste effect.

 

Symbol of Death, Power Word Kill

It's been brought up before, and iirc repeatedly. Reduce current HP by 60, so no resistance can block the effect.

 

Breach

Desc needs to mention it also dispels druid's Storm Shield.

[Demivrgvs]

Earthquake

I do understand the reasoning behind it killing things outright. But yesterday I was doing Vithal's quest in Underdark and fought SCS's upgraded earth guardian (who casts Earthquake among the other). On the first try PC died and I had to reload. On the next another man died, with no way to trace the source. On the third - invisible Vithal died.

I took the SPL apart and decided I don't like it much. First, it probably is much more annoying than useful, especially if we consider no party friendliness. Second, immunity to instant death doesn't suggest a creature can't fall few meters down the earth. Hold effect, with extra damage added, seems more in place here - like Implosion, whose animation you've used for the killing effect. Whether or not Free Action should block it, I don't know. I'm 50/50 on it.

 

If you do agree to change it to Hold, then I would suggest to slightly augment other effects as well, since Hold probably will end up being weaker than insta-kill.

Mmm...I'm not sure I like the Hold thing.

 

Now, if it's a matter of effectiveness keep in mind that in V4 all those save penalties will be less powerful (-4, -2, 0) insteao of (-6, -4, -2). And if the death effect takes place too often we can adjust that.

 

For the "friendliness" aspect, I actually suggested to make it at least not affect the caster (I think it worked like that in IWD), making it a great combo for an archdruid and his/her elementals bodyguard. A party-friendly earthquake instead probaly is too much.

 

Having Free Action protect the character from it would be an nice twist, and it would also allow Earthquake to be used more effectively without having to make it party-friendly. I'm not sure about it but it's indeed interesting.

 

 

Energy Blades

Decrease ApR to 5. This is primarily to eliminate the double movement speed caused by blades' Improved Haste effect.

I probably agree, not to mention that those 10 attacks per round are hugely exploitable during Time Stop.

 

 

Symbol of Death, Power Word Kill

It's been brought up before, and iirc repeatedly. Reduce current HP by 60, so no resistance can block the effect.

And why should I make them bypass all resistances?

 

Regarding PW: Kill I already planned to make it work similarly to V3's PW: Sleep. Creatures with 60hp die instantly, while those with more than 60hp are allowed a save to avoid death.

 

 

Breach

Desc needs to mention it also dispels druid's Storm Shield.

[Ardanis]

Earthquake

Now, if it's a matter of effectiveness keep in mind that in V4 all those save penalties will be less powerful (-4, -2, 0) insteao of (-6, -4, -2). And if the death effect takes place too often we can adjust that.

Well, reducing death effect further will probably render it completely impractical to rely upon, and consequently even more frustrating when it does manage to kill an ally. That's why I suggested Hold, as the next closest effect type. Actually, I'd very much want to see an Imprisonment-like effect, curable via Freedom, but impris equals death and it's lesser brother maze can be resisted by Enrage (which makes as much sense as Death Ward protecting from falling into fissures).

 

For the "friendliness" aspect, I actually suggested to make it at least not affect the caster (I think it worked like that in IWD), making it a great combo for an archdruid and his/her elementals bodyguard.

I don't mind at all it affecting allies, although what you say about self-immunity is very interesting.

 

Symbol of Death, Power Word Kill

Damage resistance, not magic. Since killing effect was unaffectable by Pro Energy spells.

Save at 60+ is fine (hmm, and what about PW:Stun allowing 90+s a save or be stunned for 1 round?), so let's keep it

 

Symbol too then? Affecting only >60s is rather useless. Even more so if Tweakpack's Maximum HP for NPCs is installed.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Ardanis

[Demivrgvs]

Earthquake

Now, if it's a matter of effectiveness keep in mind that in V4 all those save penalties will be less powerful (-4, -2, 0) insteao of (-6, -4, -2). And if the death effect takes place too often we can adjust that.

Well, reducing death effect further will probably render it completely impractical to rely upon, and consequently even more frustrating when it does manage to kill an ally. That's why I suggested Hold, as the next closest effect type. Actually, I'd very much want to see an Imprisonment-like effect, curable via Freedom, but impris equals death and it's lesser brother maze can be resisted by Enrage (which makes as much sense as Death Ward protecting from falling into fissures).

Well, if the problem is the "Death Ward protecting from falling" I'm pretty sure I can find a way to "fix" it.

 

I'm not sure I understand what's the problem here...that it's hard to use this spell without risking to kill party members?

 

For the "friendliness" aspect, I actually suggested to make it at least not affect the caster (I think it worked like that in IWD), making it a great combo for an archdruid and his/her elementals bodyguard.

I don't mind at all it affecting allies, although what you say about self-immunity is very interesting.

I think I'll opt for it, and I'm seriously thinking about your suggestion about Free Action too.

 

 

Symbol of Death, Power Word Kill

Damage resistance, not magic. Since killing effect was unaffectable by Pro Energy spells.

Save at 60+ is fine (hmm, and what about PW:Stun allowing 90+s a save or be stunned for 1 round?), so let's keep it

Yep, I do thought about doing it for PW Stun.

 

Symbol too then? Affecting only >60s is rather useless. Even more so if Tweakpack's Maximum HP for NPCs is installed.

For Symbol of Death it's more complicated imo...because you'd end up with a Wail of the Banshee at a lower lvl.

[Ardanis]

Earthquake

I'm not sure I understand what's the problem here...that it's hard to use this spell without risking to kill party members?

It may well be my personal bias but I think a spell should not insta-kill 'sometimes'. Either often enough to recognize it as a true death type spell and therefore treat it accordingly or never. Because unlike other curable debilitating effects (confusion, charm, hold, etc.) death is irreversible when it affects PC or, as in the example above, NPCs.

Against opponents it may be fine to kill some once in a while (even if I personally don't like to kill enemies 'unintentionally' ), but when it is used against party and/or has no party-friendly flag it means a player has to treat it as a full power WotB - which Earthquake is not - otherwise they must take a gamble and reload when they lose.

 

Symbol of Death

For Symbol of Death it's more complicated imo...because you'd end up with a Wail of the Banshee at a lower lvl.

Perhaps no save penalty for 60+ then? Or small AoE, 10'? I would vote to change it to something else, but that would mean even more confusion for AI (it already mistakes Symbol of Disease for a Symbol of Fear). Edited June 24, 2010 by Ardanis

[Demivrgvs]

I almost forgot to answer sorry...

 

Symbol of Death

For Symbol of Death it's more complicated imo...because you'd end up with a Wail of the Banshee at a lower lvl.

Perhaps no save penalty for 60+ then? Or small AoE, 10'? I would vote to change it to something else, but that would mean even more confusion for AI (it already mistakes Symbol of Disease for a Symbol of Fear).

I thought the same both about wanting to change it and then stopping myself from doing it for some reason. Still, that seems to me the only way to make it both balanced and appealing.

 

Letting 60+ targets save with no penalty may be almost fine for an 8th lvl spell (mage's version), though it would still make WotB look relatively unimpressive, but it would surely be really too much powerful for a 7th lvl spell (priest's version).

 

Regarding Symbol of Fear I replaced it because I really couldn't imagine it being used when Symbol of Stunning does the same and in a much better way (stun immunity is much less common, and a stunned target is much better than a panicked one who can still run away and sometimes even react). The reason the latter was so much more effective is that only the former was implemented as per PnP, because PnP Symbol of Stunning had hp limit just like its PW version.

 

Are you sure a change like SoFear->Weakness can cause any "confusion" to the AI? I don't think the AI effectiveness is affected by this, because the spell is still considered a "friendly mass disabling" spell, and I think it's all the AI needs to know in this case. Am I wrong?