Comments/observations on run with IR, SR, SCS2

[DavidW]

This is just for interest now, but...

 

Imprisonment

I might not be following why it's not useful by players. Sample scenario: attack enemy adventuring band, Imprison enemy fighter (say), kill off rest of party. And then if you really want the fighter's loot: learn Freedom, rest, buff, cast, then pile on. Doesn't work for singleton opponents (e.g. dragons) but it's good against members of groups.

Ehm...two 9th lvl slot and the target is as good as before? I don't think many players can consider that appealing.

The crucial thing is, the target may be as good as before, but it's 24 hours later, the target's allies are all dead, the target's buffs are down, and the party have recovered all their resources and hit points. In a large number of cases (pretty much any case where the target isn't the number-one bad guy, and a fair few even where it is), the target is now pretty much doomed.

 

Not to mention that for the very same purpose Maze is almost as effective (unless the target has sky-high mr), it's cheaper (9th lvl slot are way more important), and doesn't require you to cast another 9th lvl spell "to finish the job".

 

Granted. Though (i) maze wears off, sometimes faster than you'd like; (ii) even medium-high MR makes it a chancy proposition, with no payback if the MR check is successful; (iii) I obviously agree about 9th level slots but I'm not sure there's as much in it as you think, primarily because of ADHW (there's a reason I don't just use Maze instead of Imprisonment for enemy AI scripting); (iv) my strategy here is premised on coming back later, so the cost of an extra spell slot doesn't matter.

[Ardanis]

Imprisonment

The crucial thing is, the target may be as good as before, but it's 24 hours later, the target's allies are all dead, the target's buffs are down, and the party have recovered all their resources and hit points. In a large number of cases (pretty much any case where the target isn't the number-one bad guy, and a fair few even where it is), the target is now pretty much doomed.

From a realism perspective that's true, but from player's convenience...

[Incantatar]

I nearly died when fighting a sudden attack of vampires, the cowled wizards appeared after i used the efreeti bottle. (The warning was after using Ring of Earth Control's Stoneskin). I know it's hardcoded but it also sucks when an Abi Dalzims is following you around, when you're invisible. This won't happen for my castings on enemies.

I don't think i like the change that all items with spell like abilities are provoking the cowled wizards now. For wands i think it's appropriate but not for a djinni bottle or Stoneskin from a ring, which also is a non-arcane spell now.

 

Edit: Well it's not happening for all items. I think Kittix is not counted as casting a spell.

[DavidW]

I nearly died when fighting a sudden attack of vampires, the cowled wizards appeared after i used the efreeti bottle. (The warning was after using Ring of Earth Control's Stoneskin). I know it's hardcoded but it also sucks when an Abi Dalzims is following you around, when you're invisible. This won't happen for my castings on enemies.

I don't think i like the change that all items with spell like abilities are provoking the cowled wizards now. For wands i think it's appropriate but not for a djinni bottle or Stoneskin from a ring, which also is a non-arcane spell now.

 

Edit: Well it's not happening for all items. I think Kittix is not counted as casting a spell.

 

This is the law of unintended consequences at work (I assume), not a deliberate policy! Hard to fix, though, I suspect.

[Demivrgvs]

I nearly died when fighting a sudden attack of vampires, the cowled wizards appeared after i used the efreeti bottle. (The warning was after using Ring of Earth Control's Stoneskin). ... I don't think i like the change that all items with spell like abilities are provoking the cowled wizards now. For wands i think it's appropriate but not for a djinni bottle or Stoneskin from a ring, which also is a non-arcane spell now.

That's not intended actually, I'll fix that asap. Not even wands should cause that now. I previously made wands work like that on purpose but most players were seriously against it and I reverted the change. Let me know if you notice any other item causing that.

 

I know it's hardcoded but it also sucks when an Abi Dalzims is following you around, when you're invisible. This won't happen for my castings on enemies.

Eh...there's little we can do unless David finds some absurdly complicated way of scripting the targeting system, like creating an invisible creature near the target and target it instead!

 

P.S If you want to escape a spell SR's Dimension Door can do that if you're quick enough to cast it at the right time.

[Incantatar]

Let me know if you notice any other item causing that.

I'll do that.

P.S If you want to escape a spell SR's Dimension Door can do that if you're quick enough to cast it at the right time.

 

Ah, good to know.

[Incantatar]

Some more stuff i saw

 

-Enemies are often shown drinking superior healing potions, i never see them in their inventories and i didn't install the potions component of SCS2

-Funny:Wearing the Sewer Cloak Anomen suddenly is unable to wear his shield

-Death Knights aren't immune to fear? The description doesn't say so.

-Where is The Robe of Good Archmagi? I can't find it.

[Demivrgvs]

-Enemies are often shown drinking superior healing potions, i never see them in their inventories and i didn't install the potions component of SCS2

I don't know...

 

It seems you don't have Revised Potions installed, but even if it's labeled as beta (because it will be included only in V3) I highly doubt it could have any ill effect on 'dropped potions' from opponents.

 

My best bet is that they simply consumed all the healing potions they had. If I'm not wrong without SCS 'Potions for NPC' component finding potions on enemies was really really rare.

 

P.S I highly recommend to install the above mentioned component, because without it SCS has almost no way to make non-spellcasters characters a decent threat.

 

-Funny:Wearing the Sewer Cloak Anomen suddenly is unable to wear his shield

Eh eh, that's because the latter checks character's stats to make sure only Anomen can wear it. I think I can fix it, though Anome shouldn't really wear an item like that (he's almost a paladin).

 

-Death Knights aren't immune to fear? The description doesn't say so.

Nice catch, I suppose none has ever noticed it because most players (like you) give it for granted that undead creatures are immune to it. For some reason I forgot to mention 'immunity to fear' in each and every undead creature's description, I'll correct them asap.

 

-Where is The Robe of Good Archmagi? I can't find it.

I made it available later on just like the others, you should find one at Ribald's secret stash after underdark. Within V3 these robes are completely revised and will probably be available earlier because I tried to make them balanced for late BG1.

[Incantatar]

P.S I highly recommend to install the above mentioned component, because without it SCS has almost no way to make non-spellcasters characters a decent threat.

I'd normally install it. But i try to fully concentrate on caster battles in this run. (And doing so without reloads)

 

-The healing touch from the Staff of Curing does heal the attribute damage but the diseased icon is still shown. (Disease in question is from a summoned Death knight)

-Blinding Beauty from the Nymph Cloak also summons Cowled Enforcers

-Same with Contingency from Karajah's leather armor

 

edit:

-Every mage in the game now casts Remove Magic, i find it frustrating that i have no possibility to get that spell safely in SOA. Fighting Deirex in the Underdark or fighting the priests of Lathander is the only way.

[Ardanis]

edit:

-Every mage in the game now casts Remove Magic, i find it frustrating that i have no possibility to get that spell safely in SOA. Fighting Deirex in the Underdark or fighting the priests of Lathander is the only way.

Wait for IR v3. Rogue Rebalancing also has a component 'Additional Equiopment for bards and thieves' which adds a couple of Remove Magic to Shadow Thief guild merchant.

[Incantatar]

Good to hear.

 

 

 

-Fiends as they are now are really unreliable. I can think of some ways to use them in a no-reload but they are cheesy. Yes i know they are being redone atm.

 

-A SCS2 thing. It's impossible to hide from the AI. Mages/Fiends teleport to the other side of the map to you. Even animals enter houses too follow you after you charmed them and send them away. I don't think it's generally bad, but there should imo be a limit how far the AI "senses" you. I mean the AI can Dimension Door/teleport away, heal and DD/teleport back. The player can't in case of fighting better mages/fiends.

 

-The MGoI from Limited Wish has somehow different durations for my party members. Random?

 

-I'm pretty sure you know this and it's probably intended but the summoning limit is ignored when your summons summon themselves.

 

-I bet it's an unfixable issue. It's impossible to use spells like Dimension Door/Polymorph Self/Spell Immunity in contingencies.

 

Another edit:

-Triggering a contingency also spawns Cowled Enforcers. It's a vanilla thing though.

[Ardanis]

-A SCS2 thing. It's impossible to hide from the AI. Mages/Fiends teleport to the other side of the map to you. Even animals enter houses too follow you after you charmed them and send them away. I don't think it's generally bad, but there should imo be a limit how far the AI "senses" you. I mean the AI can Dimension Door/teleport away, heal and DD/teleport back. The player can't in case of fighting better mages/fiends.

That's more a limitation of AI, because it can't counter tactics like hiding behind closed doors and such. As for fiends, they in fact can Teleport Without Error at will, according to PnP.

 

-I'm pretty sure you know this and it's probably intended but the summoning limit is ignored when your summons summon themselves.

While it can probably be fixed, the easiest way imo is just not to exploit this bug.

 

-I bet it's an unfixable issue. It's impossible to use spells like Dimension Door/Polymorph Self/Spell Immunity in contingencies.

Not quite, you can specify which spells will be not available for use in sequencers/contingencies. However, all those spells in the list have a good technical reason to be there, using them in cont/seq may result in erratic behavior.

 

Triggering a contingency also spawns Cowled Enforcers. It's a vanilla thing though.

That's how it should be imo. Contingency is just a different way to cast spells, which is forbidden in Athkatla.

[Incantatar]

As for fiends, they in fact can Teleport Without Error at will, according to PnP.

I know, but that doesn't mean that they automatically know where you are. That would be scrying at will in D&D terms.

 

Triggering a contingency also spawns Cowled Enforcers. It's a vanilla thing though.

That's how it should be imo. Contingency is just a different way to cast spells, which is forbidden in Athkatla.

A wand is also a different way to cast spells. What about the Charm Person from the Ring of Human Influence, the invisibility from the Ring of Air Control and so on?

[DavidW]

-A SCS2 thing. It's impossible to hide from the AI. Mages/Fiends teleport to the other side of the map to you. Even animals enter houses too follow you after you charmed them and send them away. I don't think it's generally bad, but there should imo be a limit how far the AI "senses" you. I mean the AI can Dimension Door/teleport away, heal and DD/teleport back. The player can't in case of fighting better mages/fiends.

 

The AI can do that, but it doesn't. (More exactly, it does in exactly one place: one of the wizards in the Ice Island in TotSC). To be honest, the AI's near-infallible ability to find you, rather than some more nuanced method, is as much about coding convenience as anything else. But actually I'm inclined not to change it - otherwise, it really is awfully exploitable. (To put your point the other way around, the AI can't run away from you and hide).

 

As for animals entering houses to follow you, that's a vanilla-game feature (I think). I don't have a systematic everything-chases-you-indefinitely, I have a short(ish) range chase script for most things and a longer-range teleport version for mages and fiends.

 

 

-Triggering a contingency also spawns Cowled Enforcers. It's a vanilla thing though.

 

That sounds like it's working as it should. The CE detect spellcasting; presumably that includes spellcasting that's done via predefined triggers. (Presumably the CE would say that unlicensed spellcasters shouldn't be walking around with contingencies and spell triggers!)

[Demivrgvs]

Ardanis and David covered most of your reports making my "job" easier.

 

-The healing touch from the Staff of Curing does heal the attribute damage but the diseased icon is still shown. (Disease in question is from a summoned Death knight)

-Blinding Beauty from the Nymph Cloak also summons Cowled Enforcers

-Same with Contingency from Karajah's leather armor

Thanks, I'll fix them asap (not that the armor is going to need the fix for long, as I've removed the contingency-like effect for V3).

 

 

-Fiends as they are now are really unreliable. I can think of some ways to use them in a no-reload but they are cheesy. Yes i know they are being redone atm.

Yeah, the are a sort of "work in progress", but they now work just like vanilla's Conjure Elementals spells, nothing too strange.

 

Anyway their unreliability is indeed intended, without it they'd be extremely overpowered. If you have any suggestion let me know.

 

-The MGoI from Limited Wish has somehow different durations for my party members. Random?

It's highly unlikely considering they are all affected by the same opcode...is it a matter of seconds or what?

 

-Triggering a contingency also spawns Cowled Enforcers. It's a vanilla thing though.

I just want to confirm what Ardanis and David said, this is intended (vanilla) behaviour and makes perfect sense. As I previously said I actually think using wands should spawn CEs too, and my only doubt is about spells cast via items, thus it's obvious my side on this matter.