Thanks for not making an uninstall

[Kharhaz]

Thanks for not including an uninstall, because it's just so much fun to have to deal packs of 20 kobolds in every hallway with kobold commandos that do 20 damage with 80% accuracy on units with 0 AC. Way to take a dungeon made for level 1 characters and fuck it up. It's one thing to improve AI and make things slightly harder, all you did was make the entire floor aggro when you encounter 1 enemy and triple the density of monsters, not to mention the bullshit flame arrows.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Thanks for not including an uninstall, because it's just so much fun to have to deal packs of 20 kobolds in every hallway with kobold commandos that do 20 damage with 80% accuracy on units with 0 AC. Way to take a dungeon made for level 1 characters and fuck it up. It's one thing to improve AI and make things slightly harder, all you did was make the entire floor aggro when you encounter 1 enemy and triple the density of monsters, not to mention the bullshit flame arrows.

Any WeiDU.exe mod, that the SCS for example is, can be uninstalled with the same WeiDU.exe it was installed with, the file in this case is the setup-scs.exe ...

 

Now then to the changes, I don't think all the changes made were made specifically by the SCS...

[Shaitan]

It's a free world and playing with every component of SCS installed is not mandatory. Yay for modularity!

 

You could try to uninstall

~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6030 // Dark Side-based kobold upgrade: v18

and see if it gets easier. I like the component however, and with a little sneak and some wits it's quiet doable. It makes it more challenging also, which I guess was the primary scope for SCS.

 

For another time a less rude post would be appropriate. DavidW has indeed used very many hours to create this fine mod, and he is indeed open to sensible suggestions.

[Kharhaz]

Perhaps I was rude, but it's certainly not uncalled for. The only reason I downloaded this mod was because it seemed to have interesting ideas and boasted that it had intelligent AI improvements, which couldn't be farther from the truth.

 

It made Nashkel mines virtually impossible for a level 1-2 player party (which is the level you're meant to complete it at, so don't tell me to come back later) by increasing the amount of kobolds per floor to about 3 times the normal amount, which wouldn't necessarily be a problem, however it also increases the kobold commandos in each group, whom are capable of oneshotting a level 2 paladin with over 100 stat points. Furthermore, the call for help script could hardly be called such, as all it does is aggro nearly the entire floor and causes you get surrounded even when enemies are two whole rooms or hallways away. My understanding was that this would be handled intelligently, and a group would come all together to fight you and in some cases 2, not every pack of enemies in a mile radius.

 

Yes, I realize this is a strategy/difficulty mod, and that's why I downloaded it, I've played this with a friend and we utilized probably the most effective strategies you could think of on any given floor to survive the waves of kobolds, it's simply not possible to complete this dungeon at the level you're supposed to be there with a full party because you will eventually just get oneshot by the horde of kobold commandos swarming you regardless of what you do. No, I didn't have to install every component, but I was given no indication of what a recommended install should be. Even so, it should not make the level 1 dungeon at the very beginning of the game impossible unless you're soloing or cheating, when the mod itself advertises itself as being easier than other tactical mods.

 

I've figured out how to uninstall it with the --uninstall command line, but I really don't feel I should have to do that when a mod has this much potential to ruin your game, especially when it suggests you start a new game just to play it, a proper uninstall should have been integrated like nearly every other large mod has. Sorry if a lot of work was put into this, but after about 3-4 frustrating hours of trying to play through the mines with a friend, I really can't say either of us have much of anything positive to say from the experience.

[Jarno Mikkola]

I've figured out how to uninstall it with the --uninstall command line, but I really don't feel I should have to do that when a mod has this much potential to ruin your game, especially when it suggests you start a new game just to play it, a proper uninstall should have been integrated like nearly every other large mod has.

Just run the setup-scs.exe, it will then give you the options to skip the already installed mods or change their setting, so change their settings, then uninstall the components that you do not like when the option comes up .... there is no need to use the command line --uninstall -command.

 

The enemy's damage out put is totally dependent on your difficulty setting...

[Kharhaz]

Just run the setup-scs.exe, it will then give you the options to skip the already installed mods or change their setting, so change their settings, then uninstall the components that you do not like when the option comes up .... there is no need to use the command line --uninstall -command.

 

I'm not sure why but this was not the case when I attempted to modify components or uninstall the mod, it simply acted as if I had never even installed the mod, luckily --uninstall seemed to remove it with no negative impact on other mods or the game's stability.

 

The enemy's damage out put is totally dependent on your difficulty setting...

 

I always play on core rules but even with a damage reduction of -50% on easy mode kobold commandos were still capable of doing 20 damage and have a sickeningly low THAC0 for how early you fight them. They are not a problem themselves since they are meant to be in the dungeon, you're supposed to focus them fast before they can get off too many shots. The problem is you find yourself fighting 3-5 at a time due to the call for help and increased spawns, at which point they become impossible to deal with because sooner or later a party member is going to get oneshot and there's nothing you can do about it.

[Shaitan]

It made Nashkel mines virtually impossible for a level 1-2 player party (which is the level you're meant to complete it at, so don't tell me to come back later) by increasing the amount of kobolds per floor to about 3 times the normal amount, which wouldn't necessarily be a problem, however it also increases the kobold commandos in each group, whom are capable of oneshotting a level 2 paladin with over 100 stat points.

I can complete mines with a party of around level 2. Yes it requires a reload once in a while, but it is indeed doable. Last I did it ws with Imoen/Jaheira/Khalid/Ajantis/PC Cleric.

 

Furthermore, the call for help script could hardly be called such, as all it does is aggro nearly the entire floor and causes you get surrounded even when enemies are two whole rooms or hallways away. My understanding was that this would be handled intelligently, and a group would come all together to fight you and in some cases 2, not every pack of enemies in a mile radius.

I do not agree. It handles the call as good as I think is doable, but I may be wrong. I Know there's one point at level three, where you are up to beat a minor horde of kobolds, but again, it's doable. Use potions, withdrawel and bows helps a lot (shoot the Commandos). Still it doesn't call each and every kobold to the fight.

 

Yes, I realize this is a strategy/difficulty mod, and that's why I downloaded it, I've played this with a friend and we utilized probably the most effective strategies you could think of on any given floor to survive the waves of kobolds, it's simply not possible to complete this dungeon at the level you're supposed to be there with a full party because you will eventually just get oneshot by the horde of kobold commandos swarming you regardless of what you do. No, I didn't have to install every component, but I was given no indication of what a recommended install should be. Even so, it should not make the level 1 dungeon at the very beginning of the game impossible unless you're soloing or cheating, when the mod itself advertises itself as being easier than other tactical mods.

It's not impossible and surely it can be done without cheating. The readme is worth investing more than three minutes in.

 

I've figured out how to uninstall it with the --uninstall command line, but I really don't feel I should have to do that when a mod has this much potential to ruin your game, especially when it suggests you start a new game just to play it, a proper uninstall should have been integrated like nearly every other large mod has. Sorry if a lot of work was put into this, but after about 3-4 frustrating hours of trying to play through the mines with a friend, I really can't say either of us have much of anything positive to say from the experience.

I understand the frustrations you've had, and I wont tell you what is best, you know that yourself. I'd recommend you try uninstalling the above mentioned component and keep the rest. Perhaps you would post the content of your weidu.log so we can advice you? To me, the improved mines was great, as it wasn't the pushover it used to be.

 

Cheers

[Shaitan]

increased spawns

Do you have another mod which increases spawns?

[DrAzTiK]

Imo it can help to explore 3 or 4 maps around Beregost/Nashkel before enter in the mines in order to gain 1 or 2 levels. Personally, I like to explore all maps, so why not explore some easy maps just before go to the mines)

 

Maybe I wrong but from a role play point of view, I don't know if mines are supposed to be a mission for a level one party.

[Anomaly]

I recommend being at least level 2 or 3 before starting the Mines. Do most Beregost quests, explore the areas east and west of Beregost. Explore all wilderness areas on the way to Nashkel. Do the Festival before going to the Mines. You should then be at a good level to handle the Mines.

 

Some useful hints :

- Buy some antidotes or elixir or health before going down if your cleric/druid can't memorize Slow Poison, otherwise memorise as many Slow poison as you can

- Memorise as many Sleep spells as you can, it helps greatly while dealing with swarm of kobolds

- A fighter with the ankheg plate mail you find in Nashkel, a large shield and stars in "sword and shield" will be very good to melee the kobolds and resists the arrows while others shoots at range

- It's extremely important to kill kobold commandos as soon as you can see them since they're extremely dangerous ; after them focus on Kobold Guards

- The game rewards you in some way by allowing you to pick the poisonous daggers used by kobold guards, which can be sold for a good price

[Kharhaz]

I recommend being at least level 2 or 3 before starting the Mines. Do most Beregost quests, explore the areas east and west of Beregost. Explore all wilderness areas on the way to Nashkel. Do the Festival before going to the Mines. You should then be at a good level to handle the Mines.

 

Some useful hints :

- Buy some antidotes or elixir or health before going down if your cleric/druid can't memorize Slow Poison, otherwise memorise as many Slow poison as you can

- Memorise as many Sleep spells as you can, it helps greatly while dealing with swarm of kobolds

- A fighter with the ankheg plate mail you find in Nashkel, a large shield and stars in "sword and shield" will be very good to melee the kobolds and resists the arrows while others shoots at range

- It's extremely important to kill kobold commandos as soon as you can see them since they're extremely dangerous ; after them focus on Kobold Guards

- The game rewards you in some way by allowing you to pick the poisonous daggers used by kobold guards, which can be sold for a good price

 

Yes, I know I can level up and go back to have an easier time with it, that's not the point. My point is it's a level one dungeon and making a mod that makes it anything other than that, or impossible at level 1 is just stupid and counter productive because beating Nashkel Mines with a higher leveled party completely goes against the entire point of using difficulty mod in the first place. I don't think I should even need to comment on why I shouldn't need ankheg plate mail to handle Nashkel Mines...

 

I can complete mines with a party of around level 2. Yes it requires a reload once in a while, but it is indeed doable. Last I did it ws with Imoen/Jaheira/Khalid/Ajantis/PC Cleric.

 

I do not agree. It handles the call as good as I think is doable, but I may be wrong. I Know there's one point at level three, where you are up to beat a minor horde of kobolds, but again, it's doable. Use potions, withdrawel and bows helps a lot (shoot the Commandos). Still it doesn't call each and every kobold to the fight.

 

Getting through floors 1-3 took about 5-6 potions both haste potions and more reloads than I care to recall, every single pack of enemies consists of ~5 melee kobolds that block the hallway, ~3 regular archers, and 2-3 commandos that can oneshot any of your party members with fire arrows, and that's if you're lucky and it doesnt call another nearby group with similar numbers. In any case, I guess I didn't really mind it aside from the fire arrow bullshit because it's not that hard to lead a pack down a hallway or to a chokepoint with snipers set up.

 

That was until floor 4, where aggroing a single kobold causes half the map to aggro you and know your entire party's position on the map through the fog of war, which is just ridiculous. Some packs were able to be taken out without this happening however it eventually came down to 3-4 packs that could not be separated by any means, which meant you had to fight about 20-30 kobolds that can surround your party before they should even technically know your location. Now obviously I found a good place to set up my party's defenses, and this would probably be doable aside from one aggravating problem, kobold commandos. You have to kill about 6 at the same time while defending your ranged characters from the swarm of like 15 melee kobolds, which is a problem because your melee obviously can't get to the commandos, and your ranged can't deal with 6 of them fast enough. I say this is impossible because you simply don't have enough time to kill them all without someone eventually getting killed by *one* flame arrow. Buffs, potions, and entangle etc. really aren't going to let a level 1-2 party beat a force of 30 kobolds with cheating AI and flame arrows.

 

It's not impossible and surely it can be done without cheating. The readme is worth investing more than three minutes in.

 

Oh, I do enjoy your subtle attempt to insult my intelligence, it's amusing. Are you implying that I was smart enough to look at the readme but not smart enough to pay attention to it for more than 3 minutes? What is your point in that statement, and how exactly do you come to the conclusion that I didn't read through the readme from what I've said? Obviously any sensible person would read the entire thing to know what they're installing and the specifics of each component, so don't be so smug.

 

When I see "Improved call for helps" I assume that it's done intelligently, not horribly like it is in SCS. If in the description was truthful and said that it could potentially cause the entire map to aggro you and that enemies could see your entire party through the fog of war and surround you in any given encounter, no I would not have installed it because that's stupid.

 

In the case of "Dark-Side-based kobold upgrade" I recalled that the Nashkel Mines were pretty easy even for a level 1 dungeon since it only really had packs of 3-5 kobolds at a time that couldn't do much to you. The component said that it added more kobolds, guards, and chieftains, when it should have said "oh and I added retarded amounts of kobold commandos that can oneshot you and have a low THAC0".

 

I understand the frustrations you've had, and I wont tell you what is best, you know that yourself. I'd recommend you try uninstalling the above mentioned component and keep the rest. Perhaps you would post the content of your weidu.log so we can advice you? To me, the improved mines was great, as it wasn't the pushover it used to be.

 

I'm not really interested in it anymore because half of the mod is not compatible with the ToB beta patch anyway. The initialize component checks the byte size of your bgmain.exe before installing and if it doesn't match the 26498 patched bgmain.exe it refuses to install the component, meaning you can't use any feature that uses initialize as a perquisite, which is half the mod. This is a completely pointless check because the exe itself won't be modified by SCT and I assume it was only put in place because the author wanted to make sure users patch the game, which is stupid because anyone installing this would have already have had to install Tutu or BGT and therefore patched.

 

While I do still like some of the mod's features I'm not really interested in it if I'm only able to install half of them, and I place the benefits of the 26499 ToB patch far above any mod.

 

And If you think I'm just here to bash on the mod, I'm not. I'm giving a first hand account of two players installing the mod and hand picking which components they'd like to use in a multiplayer game together, becoming dissatisfied, and then being unable to uninstall it by normal means. As for my suggestions they would be:

 

- Remove the byte check on bgmain.exe or make a version compatible with 26499

- Change the wording of the Dark-Side-based kobold upgrade component, it's mentioned that when used with the better calls for help component it becomes "less of a walkover" which really downplays the trouble this can present for a level 1 party of 6 members

- Change the wording of the Better calls for help component to suggest that it might make some encounters unexpectedly difficult by causing multiple packs or rooms to attack you (I really didn't think the radius would be so huge and go through entire walls)

 

This is a mod that probably interests a lot of players looking to replay the game with some additional challenge, and people are probably going to install most if not all of the AI/tactical changes. If someone installs this and goes to Nashkel Mines at level 1 they're probably just going to get pissed, because really it's not challenging in a way that involves the player developing strategies or tactics. It's just 6 floors of cheap deaths and luck based encounters, with no warning that they should have brought a shitload of potions and archers as opposed to what they normally bring.

[Shaitan]

When I see "Improved call for helps" I assume that it's done intelligently, not horribly like it is in SCS. If in the description was truthful and said that it could potentially cause the entire map to aggro you and that enemies could see your entire party through the fog of war and surround you in any given encounter, no I would not have installed it because that's stupid.

I don't find it horribly. The readme states it doesn't launch the entire map

There are some ways to abuse this component but generally it seems to strike a good compromise between amazingly unrealistic behaviour on the one hand, and the entire map emptying towards you on the other.

 

In the case of "Dark-Side-based kobold upgrade" I recalled that the Nashkel Mines were pretty easy even for a level 1 dungeon since it only really had packs of 3-5 kobolds at a time that couldn't do much to you. The component said that it added more kobolds, guards, and chieftains, when it should have said "oh and I added retarded amounts of kobold commandos that can oneshot you and have a low THAC0".

Ehhmmm the original did have Kobold Commandos as far as I recall. And even SCS doesn't add "retarded" amounts as you put it.

 

I'm not really interested in it anymore because half of the mod is not compatible with the ToB beta patch anyway. The initialize component checks the byte size of your bgmain.exe before installing and if it doesn't match the 26498 patched bgmain.exe it refuses to install the component, meaning you can't use any feature that uses initialize as a perquisite, which is half the mod. This is a completely pointless check because the exe itself won't be modified by SCT and I assume it was only put in place because the author wanted to make sure users patch the game, which is stupid because anyone installing this would have already have had to install Tutu or BGT and therefore patched.

 

While I do still like some of the mod's features I'm not really interested in it if I'm only able to install half of them, and I place the benefits of the 26499 ToB patch far above any mod.

Why even bother use that beta patch (witch isn't recommended anywhere)?

 

And If you think I'm just here to bash on the mod, I'm not. I'm giving a first hand account of two players installing the mod and hand picking which components they'd like to use in a multiplayer game together, becoming dissatisfied, and then being unable to uninstall it by normal means.

And the community could help if you were interested. Anomaly's advices were sound as any.

 

This is a mod that probably interests a lot of players looking to replay the game with some additional challenge, and people are probably going to install most if not all of the AI/tactical changes. If someone installs this and goes to Nashkel Mines at level 1 they're probably just going to get pissed, because really it's not challenging in a way that involves the player developing strategies or tactics. It's just 6 floors of cheap deaths and luck based encounters, with no warning that they should have brought a shitload of potions and archers as opposed to what they normally bring.

Allow me to disagree.

 

Try the advices given, or install said components. You could do without. I guess SCS isn't everybodys cup of tea.

[Daulmakan]

While I do still like some of the mod's features I'm not really interested in it if I'm only able to install half of them, and I place the benefits of the 26499 ToB patch far above any mod.

The patch you hold in such regard not only was never tested (hence the BETA tag) but is also known to break random spawns throughout the game, which coincidently seems to be one of your problems.

 

Plus, most of the mods out there either aren't compatible with the beta patch or their authors don't support it, so that choice might imply even more than just some SCS's components.

[Dakk]

[...]it also increases the kobold commandos in each group, whom are capable of oneshotting a level 2 paladin with over 100 stat points.

If you believe the total number of stat points in any way prevents you from being "oneshotted", your problem might be that you possible don't understand the rules.

 

No offence intended, of course.

 

PS. Seriously, the Beta patch? Not using that one is is in the first paragraph of Installing Baldurs Gate 101 (for real, check out the Big World install instructions, under heading I, 1. 1.). So you might want to tone down your declaration of incompetence regarding the author of SCS, and look elsewhere. DS.

[Anomaly]

The Beta TOB Patch breaks the game. It's as simple as that. I never understood how Bioware could still today let this broken piece of bullshit on download.

 

I don't agree that Nashkel is a level 1 dungeon. It's very dangerous to play this dungeon in the vanilla game at this level, and there is no "race" to reach Nashel without at least clearing the areas you're crossing to train. Facing hordes of kobolds, including commandos (yes they are part of the vanilla game, and SCS does not add any IIRC), and Mulahey is something else than fighting a lone diseased gibberlings in the wilderness. And you're not supposed to go unprepared to a place where the mine keeper said many adventurers entered the place and were missing, and with a talk of demons, and even possibly a dragon in the mines ?

 

SCS is a tactic mod, so it increases the difficulty, you have to prepare, you need equipement (potions, items), you need tactics to take some fights, and that means sometimes : wait until you're powerful enough. SCS is not like a broken mod like Improved Anvil ; it does not add uber items to beat its own encounters ; it's designed to be beatable with the vanilla items and vanilla experience levels, but it's much more difficult, of course, but that's the point of the mod, right?

 

Yes SCS Nashkel Mines are hard. It's very difficult to balance correctly the difficulty of a game. SCS is certainly not perfect, but the vanilla game is not either. Look at the vanilla Firewine dungeon. It's an extremely dangerous place in the vanilla game with kobold commandos respawing at insane rate with a grand total of no loot and very little experience. This is an example where the vanilla game's balance is broken. Do you think Baldur's Gate designers really wanted their mages to kill themselves with their own bouncing lightning bolts ? Still, the game has been released as it. And it's a professionnal game you paid for, where SCS is a fan-made mod available for free.