Detect Evil

[Kish]

Can we not include the Baldurdash fix that makes Detect Evil cut through magic resistance? I find Kevin Dorner's argument that it's actually a fix rather unconvincing.

This spell detects emanations of evil from creatures in the area. Because the magic does not enter the creature, it is not supposed to be subject to the Magic Resistance check, whereas the magic of the Know Alignment spell does enter the target and is subject to Magic Resistance, Save. Vs. Spell (at -2 penalty) and being negated by devices or spells that protect against mind-control magic.

Now, if that was Kevin Dorner as a DM explaining why Detect Evil cuts through magic resistance in his game, I wouldn't mind it. But as an explanation for why he chose to assume something was a bug, I find it less than compelling.

[Andyr]

I agree with Kish. What KD is saying is a less extreme version of an argument for Fireball bypassing MR, because if it's not targeted at you then you're being harmed by hot air and stuff which has been set alight but not the magic itself.

[CamDawg]

Baldurdash changes Detect Evil to bypass MR. Dorner's justification for this seems a bit weak and is something I'd file under House Rules. As such, I'm inclined not to include it--thoughts?

[Andyr]

I'd see what pnp says... I don't have the 2E rules though.

[SimDing0]

Doesn't PnP say "it doesn't enter the body" or something equally dumb?

[Kish]

I don't have 2ed books either, so no idea--but you know what I think of "fixing" away Bioware's house rules anyway. We have no reason to believe that Detect Evil being blocked by MR is a bug.

[Caedwyr]

The priest version says the following:

 

Detect Evil

(Divination)

Reversible

Sphere: Divination

Level: 1

Range: 0

Components: V, S, M

Casting Time: 1 rd.

Duration: 1 turn + 1/2 turn/level

Area of Effect: 10-ft. path x 120 yds.

Saving Throw: None

 

  This spell discovers emanations of evil, from any creature, object, or area. Character alignment, however, is revealed only under unusual circumstances: characters who are strongly aligned, who do not stray from their faith, and who are of at least 9th level might radiate evil if intent upon appropriate actions. Powerful monsters, such as rakshasas or ki-rin, send forth emanations of evil or good, even if polymorphed. Aligned undead radiate evil, for it is this power and negative force that enable them to continue existing. An evilly cursed object or unholy water radiates evil, but a hidden trap or an unintelligent viper does not.

 

The degree of evil (faint, moderate, strong, overwhelming) and possibly its general nature (expectant, malignant, gloating, etc.) can he noted. If the evil is overwhelming, the priest has a 10% chance per level of detecting its general bent (lawful, neutral, chaotic). The duration of a detect evil spell is one turn plus five rounds per level of the priest.  Thus a 1st-level priest can cast a spell with a 15 round duration, a 2nd-level priest can cast a spell with a 20-round duration, etc. The spell has a path of detection 10 feet wide in the direction in which the priest is facing. The priest must concentrate -- stop, have quiet, and intently seek to detect the aura--for at least one round--to receive a reading.

 

The spell requires the use of the priest’s holy symbol as its material component, with the priest holding it before him.

 

The reverse spell, detect good, operates the same way, but good emanations are discovered.

Notes: Common for clerics (PHB).

 

The wizard version says the following:

 

Detect Evil

(Divination)

Reversible

Level: 2

Range: 0

Components: V, S

Casting Time: 2

Duration: 5 rounds/level

Area of Effect: 10x180 ft. path

Saving Throw: None

 

  This spell discovers emanations of evil, from any creature, object, or area. Character alignment, however, is revealed only under unusual circumstances: characters who are strongly aligned, who do not stray from their faith, and who are of at least 9th level might radiate evil if intent upon appropriate actions. Powerful monsters, such as rakshasas or ki-rin, send forth emanations of evil or good, even if polymorphed. Aligned undead radiate evil, for it is this power and negative force that enable them to continue existing. An evilly cursed object or unholy water radiates evil, but a hidden trap or an unintelligent viper does not. The degree of evil (faint, moderate, strong, overwhelming) can he noted. Note that priests have a more powerful version of this spell.

 

  The spell has a path of detection 10 feet wide and 60 yards long in the direction in which the wizard is facing. The wizard must concentrate -- stop, have quiet, and intently seek to detect the aura--for at least one round--to receive a reading.

 

The reversed form of this spell is detect good.

 

Notes: Common spell (PHB).

[Andyr]

I don't see why it should bypass MR, then. If the version in the game doesn't bypass MR I don't see why we should change it.

[Caedwyr]

Actually, from my reading of it, the spells don't even check Magic Resistance, since they are reading the aura, and not the actual creature which gets to save against their MR. Several of the creatures mentioned in the fluff descriptions have very high magic resistance, and would have a hard time of being read if Detect Evil checked agianst their magic resistance.

[SimDing0]

But in BG2 it shows up anybody who's even slightly evil. I assume all the greedy Amnish noblemen don't radiate A CHILLING AURA OF INTENSE EVIL.

[Andyr]

Several of the creatures mentioned in the fluff descriptions have very high magic resistance, and would have a hard time of being read if Detect Evil checked agianst their magic resistance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh, hmm. Yeh. Also, as it does not allow a saving throw.

[devSin]

This is all dependent on the default behavior. If the game goes ahead and reports the evil creatures as CREName- Magic Resistance, then there's no reason to have the resistance check. If it displays nothing, then it's likely fine the way it is.

 

Make sure you compare mine to Baldurdash. I can't remember if it's any different, but mine never fails (no matter how many creatures are in the area; casting this in large areas with lots of baddies is fun).

[SimDing0]

One problem I have with the current implementation of Detect Evil is that currently, it serves not only to show up evil creatures in the area, but also creatures with magic resistance (or spell immunity-- see WK statues).

[Caedwyr]

I believe that Detect Evil is also supposed to work in inanimate objects, so as long as the statues were reporting the correct alignment this isn't too bad of a problem. Of course then you have issues as to consistency for evil inanimate objects displaying as such.

[SimDing0]

The statues say "Statue - Spell ineffective."