kreso Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Am I the only one who finds strenght bonuses insane? Afaik, Refinements has a tweak for that but I'm not overly happy with it (+1damage/THAC0 every per every odd strenght point). I'd like to keep "exceptional strenght" bonuses "exceptional", but not as OP as vanilla tables. Example table, bonus starts at 16. 16 0 1 16 150 17 1 1 18 170 18 1 2 20 200 19 2 4 50 500 20 2 5 55 600 21 2 6 60 700 22 3 7 65 800 23 3 8 70 1000 24 3 9 75 1200 25 4 10 80 1600 For modex.2da, 0-50 is +1 damage, 50-70 is 1THAC0, 1 damage, 70-90 is +1THAC0/+2 damage, 90-100 is +1 THAC0/+3 damage. Link to comment
Dakk Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 If you're halving the carry capacity of 18/00 strength (400), isn't the leap between 18 (200) and 19 (500) too much? Link to comment
kreso Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 If you're halving the carry capacity of 18/00 strength (400), isn't the leap between 18 (200) and 19 (500) too much? I didn't really bother with carry weight, ignore that. The whole concept is pretty dumb imo. You move slower, but strike just as fast, or even worse; can't move at all due to carrying too much weight, but keep AC bonuses? Link to comment
Jarno Mikkola Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 The idea should be that the carry weight is increased at every step of the modex.2da, so at 01 the bonus is +3 measurements, at 10 is +30, at 21 is 3*21=63 ... etc until 18/100 where the carry weight is equal to 19, as is all the other bonuses, as you could see the 18 100/100 as the same thing as 19 .. but that's just me. Link to comment
kreso Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 Here's one more - HP tables. BG2 Tweaks has two seperate options for HP boost to avoid the lameness of your 19CON dwarf barbarian rolling miserably. 1) max HP - the only sensible reason to use this (for me at least) is that SCS seems to beef up HP in this manner (mages with almost 100HP at level 20). Personally, I think it's a bit lame and equals Critical Strike HLA. (I'm one of those few people who don't touch the difficulty slider, dice be damned!) 2) half max, half random - NWN style, ensures you always get rather plenty (1D10 becomes 5D2). Again, imo too much, and too little randomness. My own proposed - See the 5D2 from Tweaks? Turn it into 2D5. Similary, all classes can be tweaked like this: fighter, paladin - 2d5 thief - 2d3 cleric, monk, KR ranger - 2d4 mage - 2d2 barbarian (requires ToBex or EE, but who doesn't own at least one of them? ) - here I'd go with a 3d4 instead of 2d6. Link to comment
Demivrgvs Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Well, I don't want to spread my little time on too many different things, thus SR has the priority right now, but I already had revised tables for STR, DEX, and CON planned somewhere. I actually think we partially discussed them, didn't we?I'm not sure if this was the last version I worked on but you can get my general idea: TO_HIT DAMAGE BEND_BARS_LIFT_GATES WEIGHT_ALLOWANCE 0 -20 -20 0 0 1 -4 -5 1 5 2 -4 -4 2 10 3 -3 -4 3 15 4 -3 -3 4 20 5 -2 -3 5 30 6 -2 -2 6 40 7 -1 -2 7 50 8 -1 -1 8 60 9 0 -1 9 60 10 0 0 10 70 11 0 1 15 80 12 1 1 15 90 13 1 2 20 100 14 2 2 20 110 15 2 3 25 120 16 3 3 40 150 17 3 4 40 170 18 4 4 45 200 19 4 6 50 500 20 5 6 55 600 21 5 8 60 700 22 6 8 65 800 23 6 10 70 1000 24 7 10 75 1200 25 7 12 80 1600 Btw, when I was planning the DEX table I discovered something that for some reason I always ignored...DEX table can assign weapon speed factor bonuses/penalties. It may be hard to combine the right values between it and IR's armor system, but there's a cool potential there imo. @Kreso, for CON I was tweaking the "min roll" column. It achieves the same goal of your tweak imo and doesn't even require ToBex, or EE. Link to comment
kreso Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 I think you're way too generous with this; especially THAC0 strenght-boost. +7 bonus is about 35% of total THAC0 gain throughout the game. I don't like that. Highest I'd go is +5. AC can only go so far (especially enemy AC scores - I doubt there are more than a few with AC better than -10, and these are usually dragons), and high strenght THAC0 bonuses + weapon enchantement pluses usually completely nulify (enemies') AC in ToB. Dropping THAC0 bonus would have fairly nice consequences in game: 1) spells/buffs more important 2) multis and more importantly duals are nerfed 3) battles last more and are more interesting Link to comment
CrevsDaak Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I think you're way too generous with this; especially THAC0 strenght-boost. +7 bonus is about 35% of total THAC0 gain throughout the game. I don't like that. Highest I'd go is +5. AC can only go so far (especially enemy AC scores - I doubt there are more than a few with AC better than -10, and these are usually dragons), and high strenght THAC0 bonuses + weapon enchantement pluses usually completely nulify (enemies') AC in ToB. Dropping THAC0 bonus would have fairly nice consequences in game: 1) spells/buffs more important 2) multis and more importantly duals are nerfed 3) battles last more and are more interesting Yeah, I agree. Keep THAC0 down. Actually I think the THAC0 bonuses (save for exceptional STR) are pretty cool in vanilla... maybe with a -1 after 19 STR so it doesn't get so out of hand. But Damage is insanely high... 18 +1 = 19 = +6 damage -> WTF. I had made a revised table for the maximum carrying weight, but it requires TobEx since it also relied on changing encumber.2da. I should add that to my tweakpack now that I think of it... Link to comment
Demivrgvs Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I think you're way too generous with this; especially THAC0 strenght-boost. +7 bonus is about 35% of total THAC0 gain throughout the game. I don't like that. Highest I'd go is +5. Well, I do said it wasn't my definitive draft. Anyway, the cap with vanilla's table was +7 thac0 (+14 dmg) at STR 25, with my table it's +7 (+12). What I wanted to achieve the most was improving characters with "average stats". For example Jaheira's STR 15 was a net +0/+0 in vanilla, nothing more than Aerie/Viconia, while with my table she would get a +2/+3. That being said, I do agree with you that it's best to keep those numbers lower. It was a "first draft" after all. Dropping THAC0 bonus would have fairly nice consequences in game:1) spells/buffs more important 2) multis and more importantly duals are nerfed 3) battles last more and are more interesting I agree, but I'm not sure why multis/duals would be "nerfed" by this, because their stats count less and single class fighter thac0 progression counts more? Link to comment
kreso Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 Dropping THAC0 bonus would have fairly nice consequences in game:1) spells/buffs more important 2) multis and more importantly duals are nerfed 3) battles last more and are more interesting I agree, but I'm not sure why multis/duals would be "nerfed" by this, because their stats count less and single class fighter thac0 progression counts more? They would be nerfed since you couldn't make your THAC0 better by 7(!) points by having 25 strenght. On a fighter (13) - x dual this makes his THAC0 the same as a level 20 fighter without 25 strenght. Since ultra high AC scores are a rarity on oponnents, it's the usually the same deal if you have a THAC0 of -4 or -14 - you'll hit anything ---with -4 you may miss 15% of times, and with -14 you'll miss 5% of times in 99% cases. Considering the exelent scaling in game utility/power multiclasses have regardless, I think toning down THAC0 bonuses is good. If enemy AC would scale just as THAC0, I'd understand +7. But it doesn't. Full plate is AC1 if you buy it in Beregost or take it from Yaga-Shura temple. Those little +x bonuses from 14/15/16 strenght are neat however. Link to comment
kreso Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 Slightly revised version Strenght THAC0 Damage 14 0 1 15 1 1 16 1 2 17 2 2 18 2 3 19 3 4 20 3 5 21 4 5 22 4 6 23 4 7 24 5 8 25 5 10 Link to comment
subtledoctor Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Am I the only one who finds strenght bonuses insane? Here's one more - HP tables. Ha ha - have you tried my mod? Some of it is seriously right up your alley. My stat tweaks have STR and STRMOD almost exactly where you came down, and my HP tables, while a little more aggressively non-PnP-based (eg 2HD at level 1) result in generally satisfying rolls (using the CON min_roll function like Demi) and ~10-20% fewer HP by epic levels than vanilla maxed-out powergamers have. The basic stat tweaks, at least, should be compatible with KR. Link to comment
kreso Posted February 28, 2015 Author Share Posted February 28, 2015 Ha ha - have you tried my mod? I did. I'm not sure right now, but iirc I didn't get "extra HP dice" at level 1 (BGT). Afaik, BGT uses a script for your HP at level 1 (likewise, since I use an ancient mod which allows 20 CON for dwarves/orcs at start, my PCs actually get broken HP - 5 less than they should). Shadowkeeper to the rescue. here's some feedback (I'm not at EE forums) - going through readme here - item changes (staffs, arrows, darts) - this is nice. - HP tables - I wouldn't go that far actually. - XP tables - I started using my own (all use same progression). Current in KR isn't really doing it for me (it's a major slam on mages and clerics) level 2 2000 level 3 4500 4 9000 5 16000 6 36000 7 70000 8 110000 9 160000 // you only get this before Sarevok if not straying (too) far from original game path - as a sidenote, starting in BG2 allows you GM at level 7 (!) 10 220000 // you only get this if Durlag and Werewolf/Ice island is done, even then barely 11 460000 12 750000 13 1100000 14 1400000 //from this point on you get levels every 400 000 exp 15 1800000 16 2200000 17 2600000 18 3000000 19 3400000 -.....- cap is at level 31-32 (8 millon XP) Note that I use my own apr gain for warrior levels (at 3 and 12, unlike 7 and 13). - spellcasting - I use KR (level 4). - apr on spec - KR removes spec apr so... - prof system modification - have you tried SCS over this? I don't know how this would work. - weapon stlyles - like it. - THAC0 - like it Kits other than those in game I don't really use. Link to comment
leania Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Slightly revised version Strenght THAC0 Damage 14 0 1 15 1 1 16 1 2 17 2 2 18 2 3 19 3 4 20 3 5 21 4 5 22 4 6 23 4 7 24 5 8 25 5 10 I like this, but it still seems too much for me. I think fully linear progression, i.e., +1 either Thac0 or damage every +1 strength, is enough. for Example, Str Thac0 Dmg 14 0 1 15 1 1 16 1 2 17 2 2 18 2 3 19 3 3 20 3 4 21 4 4 22 4 5 23 5 5 24 5 6 25 6 6 Link to comment
kreso Posted February 28, 2015 Author Share Posted February 28, 2015 I wanted to make a real difference for "exceptional" strenght. With your table, str enhancing items would be completely obsolete. Link to comment
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