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Unearthed Arcana presents Might & Guile: tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues


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Massive post with all the compiled issues from my other posts.

Spoiler

1. Quickstride:

2. The Gallant bard kit (standalone version) and likely some of the other bard kits mess with the base bard spell tables, and seem to cause issues with other kits/mods obtaining their spells when they are supposed to.

3. The corsair kit (standalone version)

  • The kit description mentions grand mastery (*****) in light bladed weapons.  With Scales of Balance Weapon Style Overhaul installed classes can only put up to 4* in a weapon type.  I wouldn't normally comment on this, but since they are both your mods you should be able to make sure the Corsair kit description gets updated when Scales of Balance is installed for a bit of extra polish.
  • Likewise, the kit description mentions Single Weapon Style, but this has been renamed to "Fencing".
  • The Swashbuckling skill is missing an icon in the innate ability section.
  • Is able to dual class to a thief, despite the in-game kit description saying it can't.  I ran change-log on dualclas.2da and it looks like the Corsair kit is not correctly blocking dual classing to thief.  Note that the readme for the mod does not include this description.  I suspect that this is some text that was overlooked or dual classibility that was overlooked for the non-Feat version of the kit because in setup.tra some versions have the restriction and some don't.
  • The class does not get a +1 bonuses to Armor Class at any level beyond the first.  I would expect them at 6, 12, 18, etc based on the kit description.  If the kit gets a +1 bonus to Armor Class at level 1, then the description should probably be altered slightly to reflect that intent.
  • I am also getting Rat: Normal Stride: Rat in addition to Keldorn: Normal Stride: Keldorn when I reload a saved game (Quickload) with the rat familiar (from the Tome & blood innate familiars/choose familiars) in my character's backpack.  Somehow it appears it has gotten into the Global Script file and is printing out the text.

4. Multiclass Kits: Spellfilcher

  • The kit description says that the Spellfilcher gets "Silence 15' Radius" however the ability is called "Silence" in the tooltip and it works differently than the priest spell of the same name because it cannot be targeted at the ground and must target a character/npc (Living Actor).
  • At level 5 (~20,000 xp) the Spellfilcher has a chat box message appear on level up "Save vs Spells Bonus: CHARNAME".  This isn't mentioned anywhere in the kit description. This also happens at mage 9/thief 10, mage 12/thief 15.
  • Also at level 5, the variant spell turning innate does not mention the 12 hour duration in the in-game ability description that appears when you right click it.
  • For abilities obtained at certain level ups, I would recommend specifying if it is mage or thief levels in the kit description due to the class's multiclass experience system.  Otherwise players may be a bit confused about what to expect.
  • At Mage level 8/Thief level 9, the Spellfilcher gets the permanent nondetection passive.  The following displays in chat rather than "non-detection". It appears that this happens because the 220_multiclass_kits.tpa does not SAY NAME the spell and tries to reference an ability name in the base game, which can get garbled by installation of a lot of other mods https://content.invisioncic.com/u284679/monthly_2020_07/SpellfilcherNondetect.jpg.61d65ecf8cdf03f53b06ad498ffffd78.jpg

5. Multiclass Kits: Loremaster

  • Kit description says that it doesn't get backstab multipliers, however at level 1 it has a x2 backstab multiplier.  Could be caused by another mod.  I checked backstab.2da and the one in the override and all the way through change-log always has a x1 multiplier.  I'm guessing based on very old memories that a x1 multiplier is actually a 1+1=x2 multiplier.  Shows up on the character record screen and in actual combat (tested).
  • Note that there is no benefit to thief skills in <5 point increments, so the 18 points per level means there are a bunch of points that provide no benefit at each level (you'll get the benefit every other level)

6. Multiclass Kits: Ranger/Mage

  • Kit description in game doesn't match kit description in readme.  Readme needs to be updated.
  • Animal empathy gets additional charges at Mage2/Thief3.  Not mentioned in kit description, but should be.
  • Goodberries also gets additional uses at higher levels that isn't mentioned in the kit description.  Right now the kit description for both Animal Empathy and Goodberries is written very casually and doesn't follow the same style of kit descriptions used in most other mods or the base game.  Just needs to be tidied up a bit.
  • At Ranger/Mage first levelup (thief 2) a bunch of blank lines are spammed in chatRanger-MageLevel1.jpg.d0e25933b78a187e778db95789daef8f.jpg
  • At level Mage2/Thief3 more lines are spammed.Ranger-MageLevel2.jpg.9fdb44edaae9f1068578c8b4c098b49e.jpg
  • This happens at every level up, alternating between 2 or 3 lines getting spammed.
  • Note that there is no benefit to thief skills in <5 point increments, so the 12 points per level means there are a bunch of points that provide no benefit at each level (you'll get the benefit every 3 levels)
  • At Thief3/Mage2 the 2nd level ranger spells are added to the spellbook, but no spell slots are available yet.  Could be caused by a mod, but I'm not sure what file to check for the mage/thief kit spell table in order to see which mod has made alterations.  3rd level spells also become available 1 level before the slots are made available.
  • The druid spells get added pretty quick (all are available by level Mage5/Thief6).  Maybe this is normal for the ranger/cleric ability progression and the ranger spell progression (though I think rangers normally get their spells later).  Doesn't look unbalanced though.
  • More druid spells get added at spell level 4+ which are not mentioned in the kit description.

7. Marksman kit (standalone version)

  • The description of when the kit gains the Called Shot ability is ambiguous, though not incorrect.  Consider updating this version to be a bit more precise like the other variations of the Marksman kit.
  • Wording as to when the Marksman gets the +1 hit and damage with missile weapons is ambiguous, as per above.

8. Halfling Slinger kit (standalone version)

  • The name is inconsistent.  The readme and kit component call it the Halfling Slinger, but during character creation it is listed as a "Slinger".
  • The Readme and installer says that this is a Fighter or Ranger kit, however it is actually a Fighter/Thief multiclass kit.
  • During character creation it shows as being able to put 3 pips into Dual-Wielding (though you can only put one pip at level 1 in Baldur's Gate character creation). I can put 3 pips into Dual-Wielding when leveling up in game. May be due to an engine bug.
  • During character creation, you can put 2 pips into all melee weapons, all non-dual wielding weapon styles, 4 pips into Slings, and 1 pip into Bows and Crossbows.  This is with Scales of Balance installed after Might & Guile.  There appears to be some unintended interaction between these two mods. 
  • The kit description has text about abilities gained at certain levels.  Because this is a multiclass kit, I would suggest modifying the wording to say which Fighter/Thief level it gets, or just specify which Fighter or Thief level the ability is gained at.  This applies to both the +1 missile THAC0 and damage and the called shot ability.
  • The kit description lists not getting Charm Animal as a drawback.  Fighter/Thief never got this ability.
  • The class has a lot of additional undocumented features that should be added to the kit description or alluded to in some way.  I'm happy to write an updated kit description for this.
  • The inability to use metal armor isn't that big of a deal compared to a normal fighter thief, since wearing armor heavier than Studded Leather means giving up being able to use their thief abilities, but if the kit is blocked from metal armor that is a drawback.
  • Note that the class cannot use the Ankheg Plate Mail, which is a non-metallic armor available to Figher/Druids.  It appears the Slinger just has the Fighter/Thief armor restrictions.
  • The class gets an undocumented Animal Empathy ability in their innate bar.  Animal Empathy does not have any right-click description.
  • It also gets 3 weapon proficiencies and 1 advanced weapon proficiency at level 1/1 in addition to the 5 points it can distribute at character creation (with Scales of Balance installed).  This might be a few too many or entirely intentional.  It is more proficiencies than the Marksman got, however.  Up to 3,000,000 xp the kit gains another 2 advanced weapon proficiency innates.
  • There is a similar issue with the wording of the +1 THAC0 and missile damage as well as Called Shot lines in the kit description (see comments on Marksmen above).  I suspect that a similar reason and the levels at which the bonuses are actually gained will apply.  I would double check.
  • The kit can put points into Set Traps, but does not get a Set Traps button in innates.
  • The kit does not get any HLAs (more troubleshooting)Issue identified (I think)
  • The kit only gets 4 Called Shots total, see previous comments about expecting to get another one at level 20 with the kit description text as written.
    Quote

    @3243  = ~The Slinger is the epitome of skill with the sling — the result of halflings' natural aptitude with bows as well as their single-minded dedication to training with the weapon.

    Advantages:
    - +1 to hit and damage rolls with any missile weapon every 3 levels.
    - May achieve Grand Mastery (5 slots) in slings.
    - May use the Called Shot ability once per day. Gains one use at level 4 and an additional use every 4 levels thereafter.

    CALLED SHOT: All successful ranged attacks within the next 10 seconds have the following cumulative effects besides normal damage, according to the level of the Archer:
     4th level: -1 penalty to target's THAC0.
     8th level: -1 penalty to target's Saving Throws vs. Spell.
     12th level: -1 penalty to the target's Strength score.
     16th level: +2 bonus to damage roll.

    Disadvantages:
    - May not wear any metal armor.
    - May only become Proficient (one slot) with melee weapons.
    - May not use the Charm Animal ability.
    ~

  • The called shot description references the "Archer".  This should be "Slinger" or "Halfling Slinger"
  • The right click Called Shot description makes reference to the level of the caster.  This should be the level of the Slinger/Halfling Slinger.

9. Mage Hunter kit (standalone version)

  • Does not receive a -1 penalty to Strength or Constitution.
  • Slight wording adjustment recommendation to improve flow for Vocal Disruption description
    Quote

    @3509  = ~Vocal Disruption

    Mage Hunters have learned to produce a coarse, groaning shout of a particular frequency that affects the inner ear of nearby spellcasters. The spellcasters must make a saving throw vs. Petrification or be partially deafened and suffer a 40% chance of spell failure for 5 rounds. The strain on the Mage Hunter's vocal cords limits them in the number of times per day that they may perform the shout.~

    Note that the Deafness effect gives a 50% spell failure chance with an indefinite duration.  You can probably pretty safely just call this Deafness and make sure it applies the deafness portrait icon (if it doesn't already).  The kit description of the Vocal Disruption ability does not provide any information on when the Mage Hunter gains additional uses of the ability, which it should if following the general convention (additional uses gained at level 6, 12, 18

  • Gained spell slot for ranger spells at level 7, but did not get Shocking Grasp or Deafness until level 8.  The cleanest way to handle this may be either detecting what level the ranger gets spell slots at install, or just specifying what character level the extra spells are added to the Mage Hunter's spellbook.  The Mage Hunter did get both new level 2 spell slots at level 10 and the additional spells.  The same was true for level 12 when obtaining level 3 spell slots and the additional spells.

  • The saving throw bonus wording isn't quite right.  You probably want to specify the exact levels they get the bonus (1, 5, 10, 15) or just say gains at level 1, level 5, and every 5 levels thereafter.

  • The Mage Hunter does not receive HLAs.

I will continue to update this post as I continue my testing.

Edited by Caedwyr
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I've updated the mod version 4.9 with some improvements and some fixes.  A rough account of the changes:

  • Revised Bards' hybrid spellcasting system is now largely portable, matching the code in the Arcanist mod.  It supports the newer methods for ability score-based bonus spell slots as well as items like the Ring of Wizardry.  Kit descriptions will now be patched to reflect whether they support Sequencers and Contingencies (which requires TnB's Revised Metamagic option #5), and whether they can cast Identify (which requires TnB's Revised Identify and/or Level 1 Cantrips)
  • All kits added by the mod will check for whether their IDS value will overlap with the Abjurer, Conjurer, or Diviner values, and avoid the overlapping slot.
  • The presence of the Quickstride component should no longer spam combat log messages when you enter new areas or load savegames etc.
  • The Halfling Slinger's description is more accurate as to its innate abilities and restrictions.
  • The Spellfilcher's kit abilities are fixed/improved.
  • The OG Gallant no longer changes the bards' spell table, which means it no longer has a spell slot penalty.  This interacts better with other mods, but also means the kit it more powerful.  Go nuts.
  • The Corsair's bonuses are fixed, and the description is more accurate, including that you can dual-class from that kit to the thief class.  Go nuts.
  • The Mage Hunter no longer has ability score penalties (go nuts - see a theme here?), has its innate abilities fixed, has access to a proper HLA table, and gives you access to the bonus spells when you need them, regardless of  which spell table you use for rangers.
  • The Ranger/mage... has some passive kit abilities cleaned up and no longer spams the combat log when you level up.  I want to do more here - create a tiny version of the Arcanist's casting system to use for its druid spells, instead of adding them to your wizard spellbook.  Totally doable, but it won't be quick, and I don't have tons of time for it, and even with that fairly major improvement I would still pretty much hate this kit.  So... don't hold your breath.

I think that's it, for now.  Cheers.

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I'm currently toying around with a new install and I've decided to test some of the features you have in your mods. I did a quick test and I found some possible issues.

EET install, added weidu.log in case you need it. This is a rough first pass to testing some mods so it's possible I installed something wrong. I've only tested assassin so far.

- The new description for assassin doesn't mention the changes to thief skill per level, or at all for that matter.

- The description for assassin is not correctly updated to your new one when checking in-game instead of the character creation screen.

- Looking at the feats, the Dodge and Combat Training Feat show up twice in the same list. At first I though it was intentional since both of those can be taken twice but I've noticed other feats that can be taken more than once only show up once in the same list.

- The feats seems to be inconsistently tracked in the Priest Spell Book. Feats like Stealth, Thieving, Detection Skills, Lore Bonus, Poison Weapon (toxin) and many others do not show up at all in the spell book.

- Feats like Combat Training will not update your damage numbers when you check your inventory. I assume this is because of engine limitations since some items even in vanilla have this kind of behavior but I will never not hate this and will point it out just in case.

I'll try to keep testing some more in the next couple days. I might trim down my install to just gameplay mods so I can test and change things faster.

weidu.log

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Guest The Wire

 

On 8/22/2020 at 11:17 PM, NdranC said:

- Feats like Combat Training will not update your damage numbers when you check your inventory. I assume this is because of engine limitations since some items even in vanilla have this kind of behavior but I will never not hate this and will point it out just in case.

I wonder if this means that the feat doesn't work or the bonus is actually included in the damage but is just hidden?

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On 8/22/2020 at 5:17 PM, NdranC said:

found some possible issues.

- The new description for assassin doesn't mention the changes to thief skill per level, or at all for that matter.

Do you mean changes from the unmodded Assassin to this version, or changes from this version's base thief to this version's Assassin?  I'll take a look at the kit description.

On 8/22/2020 at 5:17 PM, NdranC said:

- The description for assassin is not correctly updated to your new one when checking in-game instead of the character creation screen.

Are you on EET?  And playing in the BG1 campaign?  I think k4thos added a new bg1-specific version of CLASTEXT.2da ("BG1CLTXT.2da" or something like that).  Why on earth, I have no idea.  I'd be a lot more open to putting in the hours to address this file for all of my kits in all of my mods, if someone can give me a good reason for why it should exist.  Why change things in that campaign?  Why not just point it to CLASTEXT.2da?

On 8/22/2020 at 5:17 PM, NdranC said:

- Looking at the feats, the Dodge and Combat Training Feat show up twice in the same list. At first I though it was intentional since both of those can be taken twice but I've noticed other feats that can be taken more than once only show up once in the same list.

- The feats seems to be inconsistently tracked in the Priest Spell Book. Feats like Stealth, Thieving, Detection Skills, Lore Bonus, Poison Weapon (toxin) and many others do not show up at all in the spell book.

This is all for technical reasons.  For feats you can take twice, and only twice, there are two versions of the feat.  Both will go into the spellbook after you choose them.  This feat-choice system is actually adapted from the spell-choice system Kjeron created as an alternate method for sorcerers to learn spells.  (TnB's multiclass sorcerers nd FnP's multiclass shamans both use it.)  It needs to check which spells (here, which feats) are already in your spellbook, and will not offer you to learn any spells which are already there.

I want some feats to be available an unlimited number of times; I achieve that by simply never adding them to the spellbook.  Other feats can only be chosen once, like Slippery Mind; that goes in the spellbook when you choose it.  The simplest way to make Dodge available twice is to make two Dodge feats.  (That one in particular is complicated by Swashbucklers - for a Swashbuckler, Dodge only gets added to the spellbook the third time you choose it; which means they can choose each Dodge feat three times, for six in total.)

On 8/22/2020 at 5:17 PM, NdranC said:

- Feats like Combat Training will not update your damage numbers when you check your inventory. I assume this is because of engine limitations since some items even in vanilla have this kind of behavior but I will never not hate this and will point it out just in case.

Combat Training is just a thac0 bonus, not a damage bonus.

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I've updated the mod to v4.9.1, with just a few improvements:

  • Increased compatibility between MnG "Revised Bards" and Tome & Blood's Arcanist and Multiclass Sorcerer spellcasting systems.  MnG now uses the same systems for item-based bonus slots and ability-score-based bonus slots as those in TnB v0.9.  For reference, MnG Revised Bards use INT as their score for bonus spells, just like wizards. 
  • The "Improved Rangers" component is supposed to give rangers the Tracking feat and a +1 backstab bonus, but due to a tiny typo this was not being applied if the MnG feat system was installed.  This is now fixed, and ranger are now a little more awesome.
  • I added an .ini file for use with Project Infinity.
Edited by subtledoctor
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Hey subtledoctor. I'm very happy to have found your mods again after they disappeared from the Beamdog fora.

I got a question, just to see if I'm reading everything correctly.

The Elven Bladesinger revised bard (with T&B, SoB and F&P installed) would be:

1) able to cast in armour, thanks to YARAS. (With a speed penalty.)

2) able to use the Luck Bard improvisation. (Which upgrades all d20 rolls to the next higher, so crits on 19 & 20.)

3) able to reach 4 stars in their focus weapon and the bonus 1/2 APR would stack with the 1/2 from Fencing Style (**) and weapon proficiencies.

4) using INT as stat for bonus spells.

5) able to complete the Siren quest in Easthaven by singing. (In IWD EE, obviously.)

 

Finally, I seem to recall that one should not be using EEKeeper to edit savegames, but Infinity Explorer. Is that correct?

 

Thanks in advance!

Edited by GawainBS
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55 minutes ago, GawainBS said:

The Elven Bladesinger revised bard (with T&B, SoB and F&P installed) would be:

1) able to cast in armour, thanks to YARAS. (With a speed penalty.)

Revised bards can actually cast in leather armor even without YARAS.  With YARAS installed, I believe they escape the casting speed penalty - but again, only in leather armor.

55 minutes ago, GawainBS said:

2) able to use the Luck Bard improvisation. (Which upgrades all d20 rolls to the next higher, so crits on 19 & 20.)

Yes they can take the Lucky feat if you have the feats system installed, but note that luck does not improve your hit chance.  It only increases weapon damage and decreases incoming spell damage, and improves the effectiveness of Mirror Image.  There is a different feat, Precise Strike, that improves your crit chance.

55 minutes ago, GawainBS said:

3) able to reach 4 stars in their focus weapon and the bonus 1/2 APR would stack with the 1/2 from Fencing Style (**) and weapon proficiencies.

The exact number of stars depending on which proficiency system you use, but in general yes, with SoB Revised Weapon Styles, Bladesingers can attack as much with one hand as an equivalent F/M can attack with two weapons.  The same amount for mastery, the same for being a warrior, plus 1/2 for SWS, and plus 1/2 for your weapon of focus.  Also +1 thac0/damage if the focus weapon is a long sword or short sword!

55 minutes ago, GawainBS said:

4) using INT as stat for bonus spells.

Yes.

55 minutes ago, GawainBS said:

5) able to complete the Siren quest in Easthaven by singing. (In IWD EE, obviously.)

Yes.

Just note, there is currently a kind of nasty bug with the way the Revised Bards handles bonus spell slot items like the Ring of Wizardry.  (The items actually work perfectly with Revised Bards; they are a bit screwy with normal mages.)  I've already written up the fix, I just need to playtest it.  The fixed version should hopefully be ready by tonight or tomorrow.

Edited by subtledoctor
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8 hours ago, GawainBS said:

I'll hold off on installing the mods then.

Okay, as outlined here, I just updated this mod, as well as TnB, FnP, and SoB.  All four updates involve some of the same systems so I recommend grabbing all of the latest versions.  (In fact I also made small updates to Random Tweaks and Will to Power as well, though those are very minor, and unrelated.)

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