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Unearthed Arcana presents Might & Guile: tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues


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1 hour ago, Caedwyr said:

However, what actually happens is that the kit is installed as a Fighter/Thief multiclass kit available only to halflings.

Yeah, I long long ago made the Slinger kit as an Archer who could get GM in slings, since Archers weirdly cannot. On BG(2)EE v1.3 you could make a halfling ranger kit; but back then I cared more about the pre-EE engine (because the 1.3 patch kind of licked balls) in which halflings could not be rangers, so I also included a fighter version. 

With EE 2.0, we started making multiclass kits and I realized that F/T is the perfect base for the Slinger kit. Must have failed to change that string in the installer though. 

53 minutes ago, Caedwyr said:

For consistency it might make more sense for the Ranger/Mage multiclass to be listed under the Fighter/Mage multiclass unless it needs something specific to the Mage/Thief

It needs something specific to the Mage/Thief class, insofar as it is a Mage/Thief. The EE v2.0 engine allowed us to limit access to certain thief skills for thief kits, and let us better control the hit dice of certain kits. So a thief kit could be limited to HiS/MS, and have 1d10 hit points per level... add a thac0 bonus and some nature-magic innate abilities and you have a passable Ranger. 

Whereas, there’s no way to give stealth to a fighter kit. So you simply can’t come at it from that angle. Thus, you can make a mage/thief kit into a sort-of-if-you-squint ranger/mage. 

Admittedly it’s a pretty bad hack - easily the worst entry in my series of kits that emulate heretofore-forbidden classes. I never use it myself, and I’m actually a bit ashamed of it. It’s junky. (Though I defy you to come up with a better solution. That class combo is, for my money, the single most difficult to do in the Infinity Engine. (With the possible exception of multiclass bards, depending on what level of 2E fidelity you demand.))

Edited by subtledoctor
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The Ranger/Mage showing up under the thief isn't really that noticeable on the jankiness scale.  I just caught it because I'm going through everything with a fine-toothed comb right now kit/classwise to catch anything that stands out too much.

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Guest Obtuse User

I installed the latest version of M&G on a clean install of BGEE to confirm, and noticed a couple of issues affecting trueclass Fighters when using the Feats component:

1. Their description does not copy over successfully, though the code in the tpa mirrors that for barbarians, rangers and rogues which DO copy successfully. I cannot explain this but, again, i repeated it on a clean install.

2. They receive two Feats at level 1, immediately after character generation. While this is inconsistent with their class description text (which only says a feat at level 3 and every 3rd level thereafter), it looks like it is consistent with their 2da, so maybe the flavor text just needs to be updated?

3. Most problematically (rest is minor), they receive access to both Warrior and Rogue feats. I can pick from any of both lists. Rogues correctly have access only to Rogue feats.

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2 hours ago, Guest Obtuse User said:

They receive two Feats at level 1, immediately after character generation

Might be just for being a trueclass fighter, might be for having high intelligence.  I'll take a look at the class description text.  I suppose the class description text for some of this is out of date, since the system has changed a bit since I wrote it (see below).

2 hours ago, Guest Obtuse User said:

Most problematically (rest is minor), they receive access to both Warrior and Rogue feats. I can pick from any of both lists. Rogues correctly have access only to Rogue feats.

The way the lists works used to be very static, but now the overall list of feats if fairly blended, with each kit getting a unique set to choose from.  The table describing which kit gets which feats is here.  It's a bit difficult to read, since the column headings don't line up with the entries when viewed on the Github page.  If you copy that into a text editor, or look at the original version in the mod folder, it should line up nicely.  The abilities that begin "d5uw" were originally warrior feats, and those that begin "d5ur" were originally rogue feats.  You can see that the base fighter gets access to d5ura4 (lore bonus), d5ura5 (luck bonus), d5urc6 (flaming weapon), d5urd0 (AC bonus), d5urd1 (AC bonus), and a few others.  They do not, however, get fancier rogue feats like Swashbuckling, Missile Snaring, Escape Artist, Fighting Dirty, etc. 

EDIT - you can modify that table before installing the mod, if you want to change which kits get access to which feats.

Edited by subtledoctor
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Guest Guest Obtuse User

This is helpful, thank you.

Any idea why the kit description text may not be copying successfully? I also do not think the 2 starting feats are tied to an Int requirement, for what its worth. If you look at feats_fighter.txt (which I think rights to their ability progression 2da?), they get AP_D5FEAT1 and AP_D5FEAT2 at Level 1, which i've interpreted to allow free feat selection; this also must be by design hence my assumption it was just the flavor text not reflecting the current version. I'm a real amateur here though so I could be misinterpreting. I also created a clean BGEE Fighter (only M&G installed) with Int dumped to 3, and confirmed he had access to 2 feats.

As you noted, my Fighter does have access to flaming weapon, Dodge, lore and luck bonus. The lore bonus feels a bit out of place, as does his access to the dirty tricks blind and disrupt, but everything else seems reasonable and thematic. And at least this confirms it is working as intended!

Only issue as far as I can tell is the outdates kit description that is not copying over correctly, for some reason! Easily fixed manually by editing the string in NI.

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Guest Obtuse User

Another question, if you don't mind: I can successfully edit the feat lists for existing kits (per your instructions above), but can you offer some tips if i wanted to add feats to new kits added by mods? I tried copying the feat abilities from the Burglar 2DA to the Adventurer 2DA, and in turn adding a column for the Adventurer to d5flstf.2da. While the Feat innate shows up in game, when using it no spellbook appears for feat selection.

Only need to try and explain if its relatively simple to do and I'm missing something obvious. Thanks!

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1 hour ago, Guest Obtuse User said:

I tried copying the feat abilities from the Burglar 2DA to the Adventurer 2DA, and in turn adding a column for the Adventurer to d5flstf.2da. While the Feat innate shows up in game, when using it no spellbook appears for feat selection

Did you do that before installing the mod, or after?

That .2da file controls how the mod is installed - it doesn’t do anything in the game once you are playing. Your method will probably work (I think), but you have to add the column to d5flstf.2da in the mod folder before installing, then add the feat abilities to the new kit’s ability table after installing.

Edited by subtledoctor
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14 minutes ago, Guest Obtuse User said:

There's my issue - made both edits after installing. Is there another process I can follow post-install? Thanks again.

You’d have to do surgery on the feat innate abilities themselves (all of them). I think they use opcode 326 effects to differentiate by kit... you would have to copy one of them and change the copy to the new kit. I’m not totally sure off the top of my head, and I’m not certain it would work even you did it right. But, it might! No harm in trying. Just back up the feat files before doing surgery, and restore the backups if something goes wrong. 

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Guest Obtuse User

Yeah thats probably beyond what I'm willing/able to do lol. I'll make my preferred edits to your 2da's for my next install :)

Great job on the feat system by the way - very interesting stuff.

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Guest The Wire

I've got a problem importing my mage/thief bard from SoD to SoA. Specifically the spell preparation and inspiration icons vanish.

I'm using MnG 4.4.3.

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16 hours ago, Guest The Wire said:

I've got a problem importing my mage/thief bard from SoD to SoA. Specifically the spell preparation and inspiration icons vanish.

I'm using MnG 4.4.3.

That's not great.  I have no idea why that would be... did you export the character, or the savegame?  Maybe there's a difference?  (Fingers crossed.)  I really have no idea how the game imports characters, or why it would remove some innate abilities.  But #1, try different methods of exporting/importing your character.

#2, you could try use the console to add them back to your character... something like "C:Eval" and then invoke the AddSpecialAbility action.  Honestly the console is really clunky to me and I cannot remember exactly how to do it.  Maybe something like

C:Eval('ActionOverride(Player1,AddSpecialAbility("d5prepb"))')
C:Eval('ActionOverride(Player1,AddSpecialAbility("d5bdxxx"))')

That syntax may not be exactly right... like I say, it's really hard for me to remember exactly how to use the console, where the quotes and parens have to be, etc.

Your character should remember which bard songs it knows and doesn't know, so giving yourself the "Cancel Song" ability 'd5bdxxx' should renew the ones you know.  Your character should have recorded how many casting slots it has at each spell level - it is recorded in various unused proficiencies, and I'm pretty sure proficiencies are preserved when importing characters - so giving yourself the "Prepare Spells" ability 'd5prepb' should enable you to memorize spells and then sleep and then cast them.

But honestly, no promises.  The fact that there is a problem in the first place means that something is going on that I don't understand.  Worst-case scenario, #3, you're going to have to recreate your character in the Chargen menus.

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Guest The Wire
1 hour ago, subtledoctor said:

That's not great.  I have no idea why that would be... did you export the character, or the savegame?  Maybe there's a difference?  (Fingers crossed.)  I really have no idea how the game imports characters, or why it would remove some innate abilities.  But #1, try different methods of exporting/importing your character.

#2, you could try use the console to add them back to your character... something like "C:Eval" and then invoke the AddSpecialAbility action.  Honestly the console is really clunky to me and I cannot remember exactly how to do it.  Maybe something like


C:Eval('ActionOverride(Player1,AddSpecialAbility("d5prepb"))')
C:Eval('ActionOverride(Player1,AddSpecialAbility("d5bdxxx"))')

That syntax may not be exactly right... like I say, it's really hard for me to remember exactly how to use the console, where the quotes and parens have to be, etc.

Your character should remember which bard songs it knows and doesn't know, so giving yourself the "Cancel Song" ability 'd5bdxxx' should renew the ones you know.  Your character should have recorded how many casting slots it has at each spell level - it is recorded in various unused proficiencies, and I'm pretty sure proficiencies are preserved when importing characters - so giving yourself the "Prepare Spells" ability 'd5prepb' should enable you to memorize spells and then sleep and then cast them.

But honestly, no promises.  The fact that there is a problem in the first place means that something is going on that I don't understand.  Worst-case scenario, #3, you're going to have to recreate your character in the Chargen menus.

#1 didn't work but it looks like the #2 console option you provided works like a charm, and with either import! Inspirations and Memorizing icons are visible and working so far.

Thanks a bunch. 

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