subtledoctor Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 (edited) Well IWD spells give us Emotion: Hope, Hopelessness, Courage, and Fear. Adding one without its opposite would disrupt that balance... but then again who cares. Something like Emotion: Rage might be interesting - induce a berserk state in all targets. Or Emotion: Drowsiness which would just be a clone of Greater Command. For me, I’ll probably settle on making Haste & Slow cancel out (hopefully without resorting to subspells, because I want to do it by patching and it would have handle everything touched by kreso’ k1#haste function), and an improved version of Waves of Fatigue. Actually now that I mention drowsiness, maybe I’ll like a 1-round Sleep as like a “fall down” effect. Edited August 6, 2020 by subtledoctor Quote Link to comment
pochesun Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 (edited) On 8/4/2020 at 6:51 PM, Bartimaeus said: I *think* Slow already works that way - Haste doesn't grant immunity to Slow, Slow dispels Haste by sectype and then applies itself afterwards. The exact reverse happens with Haste, too - sectype dispel of Slow, then apply the Haste effects. I really don't like Waves of Fatigue, and I'm borderline in favor of restoring the original Chaos (even though it's super lame, seeing as it's basically Confusion+ - I'd rather enemy spellcasters be casting that than Waves of Fatigue). You sure Haste dispells Slow? Yesterday i had a fight when my character was slowed and then he imbibed potion of haste (forgot the name) and slow did not go away (both icons of Haste and Slow remained on the character) and the character movement still was clearly slowed. I am not sure about spell Haste but i assume spell and potion should act the same way. Edited August 6, 2020 by pochesun Quote Link to comment
subtledoctor Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 9 hours ago, pochesun said: Yesterday i had a fight when my character was slowed and then he imbibed potion of haste Was it an IR potion of haste, or a regular one? (I.e. do you have IR installed?) Quote Link to comment
Lianos Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, pochesun said: You sure Haste dispells Slow? Yesterday i had a fight when my character was slowed and then he imbibed potion of haste (forgot the name) and slow did not go away (both icons of Haste and Slow remained on the character) and the character movement still was clearly slowed. I am not sure about spell Haste but i assume spell and potion should act the same way. 1 hour ago, subtledoctor said: Was it an IR potion of haste, or a regular one? (I.e. do you have IR installed?) I can confirm this for my installation of SCS + SR* + IR*, the IR Potion of Haste does not cancel a slow effect. On a weird way, both effects apply simultaneously. The Haste spell cancels out slow effects like it should. * not the Revised versions! Edited August 6, 2020 by Lianos Quote Link to comment
subtledoctor Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 Glancing at my own install (also SR/IR), and yeah the Potion of Speed does not participate in Kreso's Haste/Slow system. @Bartimaeus you are probably the most expert person around here as far as these mods... maybe we could have a really in-depth conversation about SR/IR install order. I used to do IR first, then SR; then, I think after reading some of your posts, I started installing SR first. (That way IR's item effects that are pulled out into .SPL files can use the new SR methods.) But obviously doing IR second means some of the large-scale patching in SR won't affect it (the K1#haste stuff, maybe the K1#dispel stuff, and maybe also the Deflections-Block-AoE stuff). Maybe you can help give some guidance on what probably needs to be done, and then we can figure out the best way to do it? (OTOH I don't want to spam the SRR thread with discussion of a different topic. @Mike1072 or another moderator, maybe the last few posts (from Bart's at 11:51) should be spun off as a new thread?) Quote Link to comment
Bartimaeus Posted August 6, 2020 Author Share Posted August 6, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lianos said: I can confirm this for my installation of SCS + SR* + IR*, the IR Potion of Haste does not cancel a slow effect. On a weird way, both effects apply simultaneously. The Haste spell cancels out slow effects like it should. * not the Revised versions! I do patch Potion of Speed (among other IR items) to dispel the slow effects, but it looks like it's sensitive to where it's inserted, which is ironically something subtledoctor just ran into with literally Haste and Slow just a couple of days ago for his tweak of them. I'll have to figure out how to insert it at the beginning of each spell to make sure it actually works correctly. @subtledoctor That's, uh...complicated to answer. Honestly, if I was doing everything all over, I think I'd go IR first, SR second (and actually, at one point, I had planned to reverse it, but it's just too much work) - as it is, I have like a million patches (literally hundreds of KBs' worth!) that make everything function correctly, and even then, not everything always does! But not having to fix the global patching stuff on an individual basis sure would be nice. The problems with IR -> SR seem much more minor: 1. Fix like a handful of descriptions for new spell names/functions. I think I once saw someone code up a clever way of dynamically grabbing any given item's description to do text re-writes, though I don't remember where that was used. This would make solving this problem very easy. 2. Update/clone spell-like item abilities that use their own specific resources and NOT the base resource (most arcane-casting items, in other words - important for SoA because getting constant Cowled Wizard triggers for item abilities is annoying as hell). Alternatively, just have IR assume that SR is always going to be installed and say "screw it" to all the people who don't use both - they can live with a few spells not doing exactly what they did in vanilla - but this isn't how it's done currently in IR, which is an annoyance. 3. ...Is that it? That might be it. Fix temples' Dispel Magic since SR's Dispel Magic can't target non-enemies? There might be some other minor things, but those are the major points. If I was a good weidu coder, it certainly seems like it'd be a lot easier to do it this way than what I did. Edited August 6, 2020 by Bartimaeus Quote Link to comment
DavidW Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 On 8/4/2020 at 11:41 AM, subtledoctor said: As I was thinking about it before you posted, I thought to myself "isn't Slow superior to this spell in almost every way?" Slow is super OP, though, not mush we can do about that. I suppose Slow is easy to counter with a Haste spell or potion. Maybe this should cancel Haste the way Slow does; but whereas Slow cancels Haste and is itself canceled, Waves of Fatigue could cancel Haste and still apply its effects. The very fact that Slow is 3rd level makes it weaker, of course - it won't penetrate MGI. Quote Link to comment
pochesun Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 5 hours ago, subtledoctor said: Was it an IR potion of haste, or a regular one? (I.e. do you have IR installed?) IRR installed. Quote Link to comment
pochesun Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said: I do patch Potion of Speed (among other IR items) to dispel the slow effects, but it looks like it's sensitive to where it's inserted, which is ironically something subtledoctor just ran into with literally Haste and Slow just a couple of days ago for his tweak of them. I'll have to figure out how to insert it at the beginning of each spell to make sure it actually works correctly. So the correct order for installation now is IR->IRR->SR-SRR->SCS? Quote Link to comment
subtledoctor Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 1 hour ago, DavidW said: The very fact that Slow is 3rd level makes it weaker, of course - it won't penetrate MGI. Yeah, but these are both party-friendly spells with a wide AoE. They are largely designed to be cast over a scrum. Because the ratio of wizards to non-wizards is small, therefore MGOI is not relevant to most creatures who will be affected by these spells. When comparing the effects of 3rd-level Slow to 5th-level Waves of Fatigue, then, I don't think the interaction with GOI carries much weight. 2 hours ago, Bartimaeus said: if I was doing everything all over, I think I'd go IR first, SR second Yeah I was just thinking that. I suppose it wouldn't be too hard to port kreso's whole haste/slow code from SR over to IR, and run it on any spells that aren't already covered. Dispel is a whole other issue, as noted elsewhere SR should probably not copy over its own version of Dispel Magic in EE games. Just overwrite DM with RM and call it a day. (I don't actually know what work is actually done by kreso's k1#dispel sectype, need to give that code a close look.) If IR is going second (as currently), then it seems that anywhere the mods interact there should just be two spells in IR, and it should check whether SR is installed and copy in the appropriate version. That's not hard to do... I just have no earthly idea of the breadth of the instances where this is necessary. Sigh... I really can't tell if I'm looking at a hill or a mountain. Quote Link to comment
Bartimaeus Posted August 6, 2020 Author Share Posted August 6, 2020 I think Kreso's Haste/Slow code dynamically detects anything with Haste/Slow effects, so if SR is installed after, there's no need to do even that. For IRR, I'd wager it's...probably in the 20-30 area for spell-like abilities. I don't know for IR. Quote Link to comment
Bartimaeus Posted August 6, 2020 Author Share Posted August 6, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, pochesun said: So the correct order for installation now is IR->IRR->SR-SRR->SCS? The correct order for the time being is still SRR -> IRR -> SCS. It's possible this order may change when I update IRR for the new 1pp version, which will require a sizable update in order to fix, including a number of things that will overlap with how I handle compatibility between IRR, SRR, 1pp, and the EEs, so I might well change it then. Edited August 6, 2020 by Bartimaeus Quote Link to comment
pochesun Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 21 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said: The correct order for the time being is still SRR -> IRR -> SCS. It's possible this order may change when I update IRR for the new 1pp version, which will require a sizable update in order to fix, including a number of things that will overlap with how I handle compatibility between IRR, SRR, 1pp, and the EEs, so I might well change it then. ok gotcha, please mention somewhere in this topic (or in patch notes) if the installation order changes. On topic, Potion of speed still does not negate slow (though discription says it should), just a reminder Quote Link to comment
Bartimaeus Posted August 6, 2020 Author Share Posted August 6, 2020 31 minutes ago, pochesun said: ok gotcha, please mention somewhere in this topic (or in patch notes) if the installation order changes. On topic, Potion of speed still does not negate slow (though discription says it should), just a reminder Will do. Also, already 'got' Potion of Speed, but I haven't uploaded it to github, due to needing to actually set up a game to test the solution, . Quote Link to comment
pochesun Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 5 hours ago, Bartimaeus said: Will do. Also, already 'got' Potion of Speed, but I haven't uploaded it to github, due to needing to actually set up a game to test the solution, . Awesome, thx Quote Link to comment
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