SR Revised V1.3.900 (2022 August 8th)

[pochesun]

33 minutes ago, jmerry said:

Checking the files ... the basic SRR version of Melf's Acid Arrow just does a bunch of damage effects. Resistances apply to each of those individually, and >100% resistance to the acid effect can result in negative damage (increasing the target's damage). But it's a small effect; 2d4 damage at 127% resistance results in an average of 0.875 health gained per packet of acid. Still, the highest level version of the spell is 1d6+1 missile damage and then six packets of 2d4 acid damage; at 0% missile resistance and 127% acid resistance, that's -1.75 average damage over the course of the spell.

For Flame Arrow, the damage is all instant, and the offsetting effect happens immediately.

There's a quirk of game mechanics there; >100% resistance results in negative damage, but only for non-physical damage types.

I still cant understand why at 127% resistance missile damage and elemental damage are not separated as recieved damage. At 100% resistance they are separated. I realize that >100% resistance results in negative elemental damage (basically healing) but those are different types of damage, and those spells specifically say that first the target recieves missile damage and only then elemental (so basically its an incremental process of recieving damage).

[pochesun]

@Bartimaeus Also found that my character was Dire Charmed by Mage Ogre and then i cast Domination (wizard spell) on the same character to get control of it again and the log says "Protected by the Shiled of the Archons". Bad string, i presume.

[Bartimaeus]

30 minutes ago, pochesun said:

@Bartimaeus Also found that my character was Dire Charmed by Mage Ogre and then i cast Domination (wizard spell) on the same character to get control of it again and the log says "Protected by the Shiled of the Archons". Bad string, i presume.

Thanks! I apparently fixed this on June 4th, so luckily it's already taken care of. The spell was getting its string updated, but it had been set to update to the wrong .tra string (23002 instead of 23004).

As for Melf's Acid Arrow, I can't confirm what you're experiencing on BG2EE: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/43ud5yzzs35pgol/Baldur_ZHz2JblnR6.mp4 Not pictured here, but I also set it to max (instead of just 101) and had Jan Jansen cast it as well, same result.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Bartimaeus

[pochesun]

16 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

As for Melf's Acid Arrow, I can't confirm what you're experiencing on BG2EE: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/43ud5yzzs35pgol/Baldur_ZHz2JblnR6.mp4 Not pictured here, but I also set it to max (instead of just 101) and had Jan Jansen cast it as well, same result.

I did some more testing and thats interesting. If i cast Malf"s Acid Arrow spell on a character that got say 50% resistance from an ankheg armor and 50% resistance from Potion of Energy Protection (so 100% total, 100 is visible in charachter's info window) then the effect is the same you got in your video. But if i cast Melf's Acid Arrow spell on a charachter that jsut cast Protection from Acid Scroll on himself (hence got 100% and the same 100 is visible in charachter's info window) then nothign happens, the spell deals no damage at all. Confirmed on both casting Arrow from spellbook and from scroll.

I mean in both examples we got 100 Acid resistance on the character but the spell acts differently. Who said that Melf's Acid Arrow spell is only the source of acid damage? Its description specifically implies that it also got missile damage. Feel free to try the same combination (ankheg armor and Potion of Energy protection and then Protection Scroll), maybe i am missing something but i am pretty sure its correct. I only use EE game, SCS, IRR, SRR and couple of tweaks regarding interface. 

I also tested with Flame Arrow spell  - same result as described above with Melf's Acid Arrow.

Edited July 11, 2023 by pochesun

[jmerry]

The Protection from Acid scroll only provides 50% acid resistance in vanilla, so I suspect there's a change to that item that's throwing you off here.

From your mod list ... SRR changes the spell, but we've already accounted for that change. SCS adds immunity effects to a number of elemental damage spells so they don't disrupt enemies immune to that element, but (a) that's only done for a specified list of area spells which doesn't include MAA, (b) it would behave the same no matter how acid immunity was achieved, and (c) effect ordering would let the physical damage through anyway, as the immunity effect goes right before the elemental damage.

That leaves IRR ... what does that mod have to say about the Protection from Acid scroll?

Quote

This scroll protects its user from all acid-based attacks, whether magical or non-magical in origin. All of the damage from attacks such as acidic dragon breath will be absorbed, and the user will become completely immune to the effects of spells such as Melf's Acid Arrow and Acid Fog. The effect is not permanent, however, and will wear off after 5 turns.

Ah. That. Sounds like an "immune to that spell" effect. Regardless of any physical damage attached.

[pochesun]

1 hour ago, jmerry said:

The Protection from Acid scroll only provides 50% acid resistance in vanilla, so I suspect there's a change to that item that's throwing you off here.

From your mod list ... SRR changes the spell, but we've already accounted for that change. SCS adds immunity effects to a number of elemental damage spells so they don't disrupt enemies immune to that element, but (a) that's only done for a specified list of area spells which doesn't include MAA, (b) it would behave the same no matter how acid immunity was achieved, and (c) effect ordering would let the physical damage through anyway, as the immunity effect goes right before the elemental damage.

That leaves IRR ... what does that mod have to say about the Protection from Acid scroll?

Ah. That. Sounds like an "immune to that spell" effect. Regardless of any physical damage attached.

Fair enough but my issue is that Melf's Acid Arrow spell description does not even specify its acid based attack (it just says "magical arrow"), not to mention the description specifically notes the spell includes "missile" part of damage. At least Flame Arrow spell description says "flaming arrows"  But even then missile damage is also a part of the spell.

[jmerry]

So ... why are you complaining here when it's the other mod that grants the immunity? MAA is pure acid in vanilla; it's only the interaction between the SRR spell adding physical damage and the IRR scroll granting immunity that's an issue at all. And if any changes are to be made, they won't be on this side.

[pochesun]

2 hours ago, jmerry said:

So ... why are you complaining here when it's the other mod that grants the immunity? MAA is pure acid in vanilla; it's only the interaction between the SRR spell adding physical damage and the IRR scroll granting immunity that's an issue at all. And if any changes are to be made, they won't be on this side.

First , i am not complaining, i am just pointing out. The whole reasone for this thread is to make the mod better. When i feel somethign is wrong with the mod, i post it here. I happen to be wrong or miss something so my comment about some bug might be invalid, but i also happen to report bugs or inconsistencies that are indeed subject to mending. The whole process is called "testing". Also, this is SRR thread and i figure any issue regarding spells should be posted here.

Second, The reason i was confused is that "missile damage" part of the spell in the description. If the spell had been a pure source of acid damage then what missile has to do with it, that was my issue. I also compared percentages of resistance that both said 100%, so it made me wonder. I am totally fine with how it works and it makes perfect sense to me, it was just what i thought was an ambiguity of effects.

[pochesun]

@Bartimaeus I just remembered to ask you to check Durlag's Goblet (it was thinking about it long time ago biut somehow it escaped my mind and only now i recalled it  

I remember i was using the Goblet and on the usage it turned the character not protected from fear to flee. It also seemed to lay a curse on that character that should make it flee when this character felt any danger. But i did not feel like the curse effect persisted, to be honest. I was wondering if you could check, when used, what level of "morale break" Goblet sets the character? 

[Bartimaeus]

I am currently dying of covid, I'll return to this in the days to come (or if I forget, go ahead and re-ping me).

[jmerry]

I looked up the vanilla (EE) version of Durlag's Goblet before; it sets morale break to 15. Since that's higher than full morale (10), an affected character is always in a morale break state and will never recover naturally.

Fear protection effects suppress the goblet's curse, setting morale break to 1. But when they run out, the goblet's curse reasserts itself. You need to maintain that protection for the full duration. Fortunately, the goblet is just one room away from Kiel's helmet with its fear immunity equip effect.

Also, despite the "Cursed" portrait icon, it isn't a curse mechanically; Remove Curse has no effect. Dispels don't help either.

[pochesun]

13 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

I am currently dying of covid, I'll return to this in the days to come (or if I forget, go ahead and re-ping me).

Jeez, thats rough. I hope you will recover with no severe consequences (unfortunately with covid its usually takes about a month to fully recover, if not vaccinated). Anyway, get well soon.

[pochesun]

13 hours ago, jmerry said:

I looked up the vanilla (EE) version of Durlag's Goblet before; it sets morale break to 15. Since that's higher than full morale (10), an affected character is always in a morale break state and will never recover naturally.

Fear protection effects suppress the goblet's curse, setting morale break to 1. But when they run out, the goblet's curse reasserts itself. You need to maintain that protection for the full duration. Fortunately, the goblet is just one room away from Kiel's helmet with its fear immunity equip effect.

Also, despite the "Cursed" portrait icon, it isn't a curse mechanically; Remove Curse has no effect. Dispels don't help either.

Yeah thats the issue, in my game it seems that goblet's curse does not reassert itself. The only time morale break happens is when i use Goblet with no protection from fear, but i can easily cast Remove Fear spell and after that it looks like the curse does not exist at all (even when Remove Fear effect wears off), though there is an icon of a curse on the character. Also, when i equip Kiel's helmet and then use Goblet and then unequip Kiel's helmet - nothing happens and my character never fall in morale break.

Edited July 13, 2023 by pochesun

[jmerry]

... Looking again at a typical fear protection package...

Ah. Fear protection grants immunity to effects that alter the morale break value. So indeed, if you use the goblet while protected via the helmet, Remove Fear, or a similar effect, the curse won't take hold in the first place.

The one case in which the curse should reassert itself is when you apply that fear protection after using the goblet; then you'll have two opcode 106 effects on you. The newer one takes priority over the older, and when that Remove Fear wears off the goblet's effect will still be there because it lasts 12 hours.

Unless something altered one or more of the pieces involved. SRR's Resist Fear (renamed Remove Fear) looks fine to me. Maybe you should check your version of the goblet?

[pochesun]

20 hours ago, jmerry said:

... Looking again at a typical fear protection package...

Ah. Fear protection grants immunity to effects that alter the morale break value. So indeed, if you use the goblet while protected via the helmet, Remove Fear, or a similar effect, the curse won't take hold in the first place.

The one case in which the curse should reassert itself is when you apply that fear protection after using the goblet; then you'll have two opcode 106 effects on you. The newer one takes priority over the older, and when that Remove Fear wears off the goblet's effect will still be there because it lasts 12 hours.

Unless something altered one or more of the pieces involved. SRR's Resist Fear (renamed Remove Fear) looks fine to me. Maybe you should check your version of the goblet?

I just tested and indeed it worked like you described: I used the Goblet, my character fleed in panic, then i cast Remove fear on him - and got control of it. But after 5 mins passed and Remove Fear wore off the character ran in panic away again.

I think i should draw @Bartimaeus 's attention to this: i feel like using Goblet while being proitected should still lay curse effect on the character for the time span of 12 hours and that curse should take priority whenever remove fear effect is not active on the character (especially if the curse icon appears but no effect takes place - thats kinda weird). Also, and i do think it would be cool, if the Goblet sets morale break value to 15 for the time span of 12 hours (kinda permanent and unvariable effect for that duration) and if a character is not protected by Remove Fear effect it should flee in panic even if that character is dealt a small amount of damage. After all the Goblet description says " causes the imbiber to run AT THE FIRST SIGHT OF DANAGER"  

Edited July 13, 2023 by pochesun