SR Revised V1.3.900 (2022 August 8th)

[Bartimaeus]

18 hours ago, pochesun said:

Could you direct me where to fing that file?

As a new spell (and not a spell that replaces another), Icelance's resource name is dynamically added to the game as "spwi3xx.spl" where the "xx" could theoretically be anywhere between 01 and 50, I believe. If it were me, I'd use DLTCEP or Near Infinity to search/peruse through the list of spells and see which spell in the spwi3xx range has the Icelance name/icon. But if you don't have those tools or know how to use them...uh, probably the easiest method would be to open up scrl6i.itm (Icelance's scroll) with a plaintext editor (e.g. Notepad) and see what it lists at the end:

[polytope]

On 9/19/2023 at 1:43 AM, Bartimaeus said:

Yes, it would be neat, but as previously discussed, it's really not technically possible to implement it like that, so to have the effect avoidable and dispellable by every method besides a general dispel would seem awfully strange to me. The only way I can really see making it stronger and having it be relatively consistent is by having it apply a total dispel on use (getting rid of any temporary fear immunity...along with everything else) and then protecting against any new attempts to provide resistance to fear...but that still wouldn't prevent Cavalier's innate immunity to fear or Kiel's Helmet from working. Eh.

Actually I discovered a while ago that opcode #283 ignores #101 protection from effects (on both oBG2 and EE). So could move both the morale break and a protection from the reset morale thing to individual effs applied through #283, then it would require an actual Remove Curse (aka Break Enchantment in SR) spell to get rid of it. If you think it's worth it or really needs any other changes that is.

 

[pochesun]

On 9/20/2023 at 3:59 PM, Bartimaeus said:

As a new spell (and not a spell that replaces another), Icelance's resource name is dynamically added to the game as "spwi3xx.spl" where the "xx" could theoretically be anywhere between 01 and 50, I believe. If it were me, I'd use DLTCEP or Near Infinity to search/peruse through the list of spells and see which spell in the spwi3xx range has the Icelance name/icon. But if you don't have those tools or know how to use them...uh, probably the easiest method would be to open up scrl6i.itm (Icelance's scroll) with a plaintext editor (e.g. Notepad) and see what it lists at the end:

I failed miserably in attempt to find that file (scrl6i.itm), lol  I only found scrl06.itm but i am afraid its not it. Just in case i attach it here.

scrl06.itm

[Nehreis]

I just finished a 7 months run, I tried SRR for the first time and really liked it, thank you very much! I even used Larloch's energy drain.

These are some minor problems I encountered :

- I *think* magic armor went to AC 5 at level 4 rather than level 5 (no big deal)

- protection from magical weapons protects also from normal weapons (quite frustrating)

- Tenser transformation doesn't seem to work as described, the base thac0 is set at 9 at best when cast by a high level mage. The similar spell Divine power gives a base thac0 of 1 at high level (I guess it should be 0, but no big deal).

Edited September 25, 2023 by Nehreis

[Bartimaeus]

On 9/23/2023 at 8:33 PM, pochesun said:

I failed miserably in attempt to find that file (scrl6i.itm), lol  I only found scrl06.itm but i am afraid its not it. Just in case i attach it here.

scrl06.itm 218 B · 0 downloads

scrl6i.itm is the scroll that both SR and SRR use for Icelance. Unless you've biffed your game, it should be in your override.

16 hours ago, Nehreis said:

I just finished a 7 months run, I tried SRR for the first time and really liked it, thank you very much! I even used Larloch's energy drain.

These are some minor problems I encountered :

- I *think* magic armor went to AC 5 at level 4 rather than level 5 (no big deal)

- protection from magical weapons protects also from normal weapons (quite frustrating)

- Tenser transformation doesn't seem to work as described, the base thac0 is set at 9 at best when cast by a high level mage. The similar spell Divine power gives a base thac0 of 1 at high level (I guess it should be 0, but no big deal).

1. Yep, you're right. Even more, AC 4 kicks in at level 8 instead of 9. Odd. Thanks, fixed!

2. The description of PfMW mentions it, which is the only difference between SRR's and SR's version of this spell (i.e. SR's PfMW also protects from non-magical weapons...but doesn't mention it in the description). Presumably, this was to prevent the player from completely trivializing the protection by just whacking mages with unenchanted weapons while the AI has zero ability to work around it.

3. I completely forgot about the Tenser's issue: https://github.com/BartyMae/SR_Revised/issues/22

Quote

Thanks, will take a look into it and update.

I am a certified liar.

[Nehreis]

Strange, I don't see any reference to non-magical weapons in PfMW in-game description (also, not fan of this choice to include them).

[Bartimaeus]

1 hour ago, Nehreis said:

Strange, I don't see any reference to non-magical weapons in PfMW in-game description (also, not fan of this choice to include them).

Assuming you are playing with SRR and not SR (they are different!), this should be the exact description of Protection from Magical Weapons: "This spell creates an immobile, faintly shimmering magical sphere around the caster that cannot be penetrated by magical or non-magical weapons; all such weapons are harmlessly deflected (missile weapons strike the sphere, then immediately fall to the ground). This includes weapons that are blessed or enchanted as well as attacks of especially powerful monsters. Due to this spell's short casting time and duration, it is mainly used to buy the wizard a few rounds in the thick of combat."

While SRR makes a great many deal of changes both small and large with relation to SR, there are certain things that SR decided upon that I am not willing to touch unless the official version of the mod does so as well for fear of creating potential issues, and this would be one of them. If SCS thinks PfMW is supposed to grant blanket protection against magical and non-magical weapons because the official SR version of the spell grants it and SCS formulates its spellbooks and spellcasting priorities around that particular fact, then I cannot even consider changing it no matter the arguments for/against it.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Bartimaeus

[pochesun]

@Bartimaeus I found the file, thx for directing me  "Override" folder completely escaped my mind.

@Nehreis mentioned (alongside Tenser Transformation issue) an issue with Devine Power spell setting base thac0 of 1 at high level instead of 0 (as i assume is supposed to be). I think i also encountered that issue too but just forgot to report it. Doing it now just in case  

SCRL6I.ITM

Edited September 26, 2023 by pochesun

[Bartimaeus]

36 minutes ago, pochesun said:

@Bartimaeus I found the file, thx for directing me  "Override" folder completely escaped my mind.

@Nehreis mentioned (alongside Tenser Transformation issue) an issue with Devine Power spell setting base thac0 of 1 at high level instead of 0 (as i assume is supposed to be). I think i also encountered that issue too but just forgot to report it. Doing it now just in case  

SCRL6I.ITM 322 B · 0 downloads

I don't believe there's an issue with Divine Power, as Divine Power mentions that it stops scaling at level 20 in its description, and level 20 fighter would have a base THAC0 of 1, so it makes sense it would stop at 1 and not 0.

Icelance: SPWI323.spl is Icelance in your game. But...you've been making sure to pull all previous files that I've asked for out of your override, right? Because if you had been pulling them out of, say, the item_rev\ or spell_rev\ folders...that would mean all the files you've previously attached for me are the unmodified install files and not what your game is actually using (i.e. they would be what I already have on my own end, and thus of no help). What's in your override is what your game actually uses, and so files should always be pulled from there unless otherwise indicated.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Bartimaeus

[Nehreis]

I confirm that my in-game description of PfMW doesn't include the or non-magical weapons part, and that I installed SRR (and I got all the other differences with SR). But again I installed it at least seven months ago, if it can explain the mismatch ? Here is the relevant line in weidu log :
~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #0 // Spell Revisions: v4 Beta 18 (Revised v1.3.900)

Also, I would argue that it's confusing in this description to specify blessed or enchanted weapons, or attack of powerful monsters, since *all* physical attacks are included.

I totally get your point for sticking with SR general behaviour.

One last thing : I noted that some effects which don't stack, like haste and offensive spin (or mage armor and spirit armor), have the stronger one canceling the weaker one. It felt awkward to me, punishing the use of offensive spin whenever the party was hasted. I would have expected the haste to take effect again at the end of offensive spin. Is it a choice (from SR ?) or an engine limitation ?

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Nehreis

[Bartimaeus]

1 hour ago, Nehreis said:

I confirm that my in-game description of PfMW doesn't include the or non-magical weapons part, and that I installed SRR (and I got all the other differences with SR). But again I installed it at least seven months ago, if it can explain the mismatch ? Here is the relevant line in weidu log :
~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #0 // Spell Revisions: v4 Beta 18 (Revised v1.3.900)

Also, I would argue that it's confusing in this description to specify blessed or enchanted weapons, or attack of powerful monsters, since *all* physical attacks are included.

I totally get your point for sticking with SR general behaviour.

One last thing : I noted that some effects which don't stack, like haste and offensive spin (or mage armor and spirit armor), have the stronger one canceling the weaker one. It felt awkward to me, punishing the use of offensive spin whenever the party was hasted. I would have expected the haste to take effect again at the end of offensive spin. Is it a choice (from SR ?) or an engine limitation ?

 

1. Yep, good call: V1.3.900 doesn't include the newer PfMW text. That change occurred in the V.1.3.908 commit. I really ought to make a V1.4 sometime soon.

2. I'm not...really sure what the intent of that passage about "enchanted" and "blessed" weapons is supposed to be, to be honest. I think it's just a rather fluffy leftover from the original/vanilla description of the spell: "When the spell is cast, it confers complete invulnerability to all magical weapons. This includes weapons that are blessed or enchanted. The attacks of powerful monsters are also considered magical weapons."

3. Haste/Offensive Spin: Can't work that way, unfortunately. The options are either that haste immunizes against Offensive Spin (thus using Offensive Spin while hasted does absolutely nothing) or haste is replaced by Offensive Spin. In oBG2, it's the former because that's the only option that works there, but the EEs introduced the possibility of the latter and so that's what's used there instead.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Bartimaeus

[pochesun]

20 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

I don't believe there's an issue with Divine Power, as Divine Power mentions that it stops scaling at level 20 in its description, and level 20 fighter would have a base THAC0 of 1, so it makes sense it would stop at 1 and not 0.

Icelance: SPWI323.spl is Icelance in your game. But...you've been making sure to pull all previous files that I've asked for out of your override, right? Because if you had been pulling them out of, say, the item_rev\ or spell_rev\ folders...that would mean all the files you've previously attached for me are the unmodified install files and not what your game is actually using (i.e. they would be what I already have on my own end, and thus of no help). What's in your override is what your game actually uses, and so files should always be pulled from there unless otherwise indicated.

Somehow i always thought Fighter Thac0 stops at 0. Ok then.

I am attaching file you asked for from override folder but... i dont think i pulled files from override folder before (lol)  I will from now on, though.

spwi323.spl

Edited September 27, 2023 by pochesun

[Bartimaeus]

20 minutes ago, pochesun said:

Somehow i always thought Fighter Thac0 stops at 0. Ok then.

It does, but as the Fighter starts with THAC0 20 at level 1, level 20 would only be 19 levels later and thus decrement THAC0 to only 1 and not zero. Fighters reach THAC0 zero at level 21, and the spell specifically mentions that it stops scaling at level 20.

22 minutes ago, pochesun said:

Somehow i always thought Fighter Thac0 stops at 0. Ok then.

I am attaching file you asked for from override folder but... i dont think i pulled files from override folder before (lol)  I will from now on, though.

spwi323.spl 1.49 kB · 0 downloads

Your Icelance has EE-specific 324 opcodes set to type 99, which provides complete immunity to the spell in the event of 100% or more cold resistance. This is not something that either SR or SRR adds to Icelance. Someone else who is more familiar with the EE modding scene might be able to discern which mod you have installed that would do that, but as I do not play on the EEs, I would be wholly unfamiliar with a mod that adds these 324s. You could try doing a changelog on SPWI323, which would likely identify the culprit.

[subtledoctor]

3 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Your Icelance has EE-specific 324 opcodes set to type 99, which provides complete immunity to the spell in the event of 100% or more cold resistance. This is not something that either SR or SRR adds to Icelance.

My guess would be that it is in the SR EE extension code. SR’s Icelance does pure cold damage, do it would make sense for kreso to have included it in his add-on code. 

[DavidW]

On 9/26/2023 at 5:23 AM, Bartimaeus said:

SCS thinks PfMW is supposed to grant blanket protection against magical and non-magical weapons because the official SR version of the spell grants it and SCS formulates its spellbooks and spellcasting priorities around that particular fact

SCS's spellbook/casting priority won't really be affected by this - probably liches and vampires and rakshasas overuse PfMW compared to Mantle on SR, but I doubt it's especially noticeable. All that matters is that PfMW does at least what it does in vanilla.

SCS's targeting should also be fine, I think - I don't think I particularly try to exploit the nonmagical-weapon hole in PfMW. (Rogue Rebalancing does, though.)