"Spell deflection blocks AoE spells" doesn't work + updated readme

[Palanthis]

Hey there, first post on Gibberlings!

First i want to thank all the modding community here for their amazing work

I'm reinstalling some mods for a new playthrough on BG2EE 2.5 with EET mod.

However, i installed the "Spell deflection blocks AoE spells" and it doesn't seem to work. I have Bartimaeus SRR installed on top of SR but i don't think it should change this.

 

I also had some bugs when installing SCS (after SR) so maybe it's that. This is my installing process order :

- BG1NPC mod installed in the SOD folder

- merge games with the EET setup process. I had a 'out of memory" error while doing this. I could bypass it by retrying again.

- SR install (version 16b) after having replaced the SR files with the SRR ones (last version). From what i've seen ingame the SRR modifications worked fine.

- install SCS (v32 RC 8). I had multiple errors at some points, including the "out of memory" again, and some other bugs. I just didn't install what bugged the install process.

- Anthology tweaks.

- finalize the EET with the .exe file.

 

Everything seems fine ingame but i tried some AoE spells near my character and my spell deflections didn't protect me...

I don't have time today but i'll retry a fresh install tomorrow  since i had too many install bugs.

Any thoughts welcomed on the bugs or install order would be appreciated.

 

Also, i think that Spell Revisions would really need an updated readme for the V4. At the moment we have to check multiple topics to get just a grasp of what SR might do. The only way to know what happens is to check ingame really, which is a bit annoying because it would be cool to know before installing, imho.

 

[DrAzTiK]

Quote

Everything seems fine ingame but i tried some AoE spells near my character and my spell deflections didn't protect me...

Same for me. I also would like to have confirmation because it seems that Bartimaeus ofen say that spell deflection  no longer protect from AoE spells . 

Edited February 4, 2019 by DrAzTiK

[Bartimaeus]

Download and view with a video player if it doesn't automatically play in your browser. Also, sorry about the music, but I didn't feel like remaking it:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/3rlsvsjsmitigkw/2019-02-04_11-02-59.mp4

Seems to be working for me. As you can see, I cast a Fire Trap on top of Edwin, then had him cast Spell Deflection, then removed him from party and attacked him, Fire Trap activates and is deflected, and then I cast various other AoE spells on him until the Spell Deflection runs out of charges. Can either/both of you describe the exact situation(s) where it doesn't seem to work?

One note I'm planning on adding to the Spell Deflection-type spells is an explanation that stationary spells like Cloudkill and Ice Storm et. al. penetrate Spell Deflection (sadly by game engine necessity). Hopefully that's not the point of confusion here. I think I've tested every spell pretty thoroughly at this point, but you know how it is...

Edited February 4, 2019 by Bartimaeus

[subtledoctor]

Don't I recall reading somewhere that AoE Deflection doesn't fully work, and can't be adequately tested, with spells cast solely within the party?  Or am I thinking of something else?

[Lianos]

42 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

One note I'm planning on adding to the Spell Deflection-type spells is an explanation that stationary spells like Cloudkill and Ice Storm et. al. penetrate Spell Deflection (sadly by game engine necessity). Hopefully that's not the point of confusion here. I think I've tested every spell pretty thoroughly at this point, but you know how it is...

Didn't know that, thanks for the explanation. Is this documented anywhere?

IMHO such things are one big reason for an official release incl. updated readme.

 

[Bartimaeus]

1 hour ago, subtledoctor said:

Don't I recall reading somewhere that AoE Deflection doesn't fully work, and can't be adequately tested, with spells cast solely within the party?  Or am I thinking of something else?

You're probably thinking of the fact that a Spell Deflection-ed character casting spells on themselves will pierce their own Spell Deflection (i.e. Spell Trap wizard casting Shadow Door or Improved Invisibility on themselves). I think another party member casting Improved Invisibility on the Spell Trap wizard would actually trigger the Spell Trap, however. One additional inconsistency is that we don't bother to make the AoE Spell Deflection subcomponent apply to *friendly* spells, so you can cast Bless and such all you like and it'll never be deflected. It's not worth the trouble to fix, and would likely annoy people more than provide any comfort in creating absolute consistency. Furthermore, I think you've opined the idea of making buffs (or at least the Cure series of spells) not have a power level at all so they can always pierce Spell Deflection even if cast from other characters, and I think I'd rather go down that route than making friendly AoE spells not affect Spell Deflection characters.

@Lianos Nope, it's a little "cutting edge" stuff since it's only as of the last couple months or so that I was alerted to the kind of derelict state of the AoE Spell Deflection subcomponent and subsequently seriously went through it and fixed everything up, added and tested a whole lot of spells that were inexplicably not included, fixed spells that were getting broken by it, and then found out the problem from kreso about stationery spells causing multiple Spell Deflection charge usages (every round - so an Ice Storm at 4th level with a 4 round duration could take up 16 charges if a Spell Deflection-ed character sat in it!). I'll be adding some explanations to the description of each Spell Deflection-like spell to explain better in the next patch, which will probably be in the next few days. As for the readme...it would probably be pointless for me to try to update it, because this isn't my mod and presumably it'll get an official readme update eventually, but I do sympathize that things feel like they're in a state of flux for somebody not already intimately familiar with its current state. As subtledoctor has said before, the mod is basically stable at this point, but a whole lot of stuff is no longer accurate in the readme or even mentioned at all at this point (e.g. some of kreso's changes). At the very least, SRR's spell descriptions should always be accurate, I guess, since I've trawled through and tested virtually every spell myself? But yeah, not ideal.

Edited February 4, 2019 by Bartimaeus

[Palanthis]

What i did exactly was just launching fireballs or skull traps near me (my own fireballs, that is). I figured the deflections spells would have the same effect that the invulnerability globes : protect against you own spells, but it seems i didn't understand it well. Also, it's nice to know that it won't work in clouds and others spells like this (and it makes sense after all: a few rounds in clouds spells would discharge the deflection spell really quick after all).

Thanks for these precisions, i will do further tests but i think it would be ok after all.

List of some things to change in update in the readme :

- The Aoe Deflection component isn't present at all. Any user won't have any idea what this component is. That's why i 've written this post initially.

- Revised warrior HLA component. I have absolutely no idea what is this component and didn't install it. Also, i don't see why a modification of warriors HLA should be in SR. It doesn't sound right.

- removal of spells like Protection from petrification, or Chaos at the 5th level. Actually Chaos is still present in the readme so it's really confusing.

- new spells for which i didn't find any info here, such as Expeditious retreat or dispelling screen.

Now, i agree with you : the spells descriptions ingame are really precise. In fact, there's so much work and love on this (especially with all the monsters stats for the monsters spells or shapechange spells) that's it's really amazing. Congrats

The only problem is that you can only see what the V4 of this mod does exactly once you've installed it...

[Palanthis]

I reinstalled everything and did some more testing.

Everything seems fine, and the SR system is looking pretty cool and balanced so far. I can confirm that Aoe Dflection is working, after all. But it's not working on clouds-type spells as you mentionned (fine for me). More interestingly, the simulacrum of my toon couldn't buff me through it, curiously enough. He couldn't hit me with a skull trap either. It's actually a good thing imho.

I noticed a few things that maybe bugs (not sure where i can post this so i'll write them here for now).

- the Clairvoyance spell  (3rtd level) doesn't seem to work, visually at least. When it is cast, an icon briefly appears on the avatar's image then disappears. So now there is no icon, and none of the stats are modified in character's sheet (AC and save vs breath should have modifiers). Not sure if it's silently working or really bugged.

- the dispelling screen memorized on a spell trigger doesn't seem to work. Well, i 'm not sure again, because we have access to all the standards replicates of the classic Immunity spell. There is no text in the trigger's screen for these spells, and there is no way to know if it's working and most importantly which "immunity" version you should choose.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Palanthis

[subtledoctor]

I think getting access to all the SI spells in triggers is a very new thing - I think from the EE 2.5 patch. SR was coded long before that so it makes sense the new update might cause an issue. 

It's frustrating because the game includes a mechanism for preventing spells from appearing where you don't want them to: hidespl.2da. It would appear the 2.5 patch's treatment of the SI: spell violates some basic norms of how things work. Sounds like SR needs to take another step to seclude those subspells, but I'm not sure how. 

I also have wondered what the warrior HLA thing is... maybe included at some point for testing what would eventually go into Kit Revisions? It's weird. 

[Bartimaeus]

Can't confirm Clairvoyance bug - just tested another fresh install, and it seemed to work correctly for up to 30 seconds (including the icon sticking). What level is the character casting it where it's bugged? Doubt it'll make any difference since all the effects are just replicated for each level, but it's possible something went wrong for one level in particular.

From the name of the file, the HLA Warriors thing is actually Kreso's creation, not Demi's. I wrote a description of it in the newly edited readme, and it's basically a nerf for Hardiness (20% instead of 40%) and a slightly different design for the Whirlwind Attacks - instead of 1 round of 10 ApR, it's 2 rounds of double ApR.

Yeah, I can't really fix the Spell Immunity problem. I guess I could just slam Dispelling Screen into a new spell slot, but that's hardly ideal either. However, it may be fixed in the future when the way SR handles new spells is updated and modernized, but that's beyond me for the time being.

Spell Deflection: Yeah, as designed...for now. Also, if you read Skull Trap's description, you can see that Skull Trap actually only triggers for enemies, not neutral/ally characters, so not the ideal spell to test - Fireball would've been better.

[Palanthis]

I was testing with a level 31 sorcerer. I've just tested it with a level 7 and results are the same.

I'm a little worried now because my skull trap doesn't work like you explain. The spell description says it will be triggered by any creature, and will damage opponents only. But when i launch a skull trap, i can damage myself with it (even if i have a deflection spell active)... My simulacrum couldn't damage me with the deflection spell.

Maybe there's something wrong in my installation after all ?

 

For your information, Moment of prescience works fine. It's really similar to Clairvoyance, but it isn't bugged and i can see the icon and the modifiers on the character's sheet.

 

EDIT : i attached my WEIDU log just in case.

WeiDU.log

Edited February 5, 2019 by Palanthis

[Bartimaeus]

Actually, YOU'RE correct on Skull Trap - I misremembered. That is the correct behavior from Spell Deflection, too - you can damage yourself with your characters' own spells even when Spell Deflection is up, but other characters, even other party members, cannot. Clairvoyance I still don't get, I just tested it again and it seems to work just fine. Could you grab SPWI301.spl from your override folder and upload it here so I can take a look at it? It's not exactly a complicated or radically redesigned spell, so I cannot imagine what might be going on with it.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Bartimaeus

[Palanthis]

Here you are.

 

spwi301.spl

[Bartimaeus]

Looks like an EE-only bug. Basically, in non-EE games, spells like Clairvoyance have an anti-stacking effect, so you can't cast the same buff twice and stack its effects (e.g. double the AC bonus of Clairvoyance). Works fine. But in EE games, there's the functionality to instead "refresh" a spell, so if you have 30 seconds left of Clairvoyance (out of say, several turns), you can choose to recast the spell and it'll dispel the original casting and then put a fresh new one on. One of the additions of SR for EE games is converting the anti-stacking effect to the refresh spell effect, so that that actually happens instead of the additional casting being flat-out ignored. I tested virtually every other arcane and priest buff, and it seems like for whatever reason that I cannot figure out (since it looks exactly like every other spell using this technique), that specifically Clairvoyance attempts to refresh itself on a first cast, which essentially means it immediately dispels itself after casting. I really don't get why, so I'm just going to disable that particular spell from being affected by that function. Thanks for letting me know, and the fix is now live on github.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Bartimaeus

[Jarno Mikkola]

Is the effects applied in the wrong order, in the Clairvoyance -spell... as you probably should dispel the effect first and then reapply it... in all the spells, not just Clairvoyance.