Imoen 4 Ever Compatibility Notes

[jastey]

Hi @Blash2 thanks for the kind words!

If a mod is not mentioned here, all I can give is a good guess. So I guess I4E is compatible with the following mods, because they are either quest mods or ToB only:

Spoiler

1. Shadows over Soubar

2. Check the bodies

3. Ascension, specifically "Rewritten Final Chapter of Throne of Bhaal", "Expanded Epilogues for Bioware NPCs -> David Gaider's expanded epilogues for Bioware NPCs" and "Slightly improved cutscenes, by DavidW: 2.0.10"

4. Adalon's Blood

5. Tower Of Deception

6. Dungeon Crawl

7. Back to Brynnlaw

8. The Sellswords

9. The Reunion

10. Colours of Infinity: Tales of the Deep Gardens

11. Colours of Infinity: Innershade

12. Colours of Infinity - The White Queen

13. Ooze's Lounge: a new area under Athkatlan Slums

14. Colours of Infinity: I Shall Never Forget

15. Eilistraee's Song

16. Fishing for Trouble

18. Item Upgrade

20. Sir Ajantis NPC for BGII (verified, it's in your list)

38. Sarevok Friendship for BGII: ToB

40. Lucy the Wyvern

41. Every mod and dog

I guess I4E is not compatible content wise with the following, because they probably all talk with Imoen as if she already was in Spellhold:

Spoiler

19. IEP Extended Banter, specifically: "Extended NPC-NPC Interaction SoA", "Extended Minsc/Aerie Interaction ToB", "Imoen "Retrospection" dialogue for BGII", "Wake-Up dialogue for Anomen Romance (By David Gaider with additions from Kulyok) and "Restored Aerie/Jaheira/Anomen interjection in Underdark"

21. Xan NPC MOD for Baldur's Gate II

22. Chosen of Mystra's Alora NPC Mod

23. Tiax NPC MOD for Baldur's Gate II

24. Angelo NPC MOD for Baldur's Gate II

25. Ninde NPC Mod

26. Xulaye NPC Mod for EET

27. Yvette Romance - BG2 Romance Character

28. Dace Linton NPC Mod for EET

29. Isra for BGII

30. de'Arnise Romance for Baldur's Gate II

31. Chloe for EET

32. Valen

33. Pocket Plane Banter Pack for BG2

34. Viconia Friendship

35. Mazzy Friendship

36. Imoen Friendship

37. Coran NPC MOD for Baldur's Gate II

39. Branwen BG2 NPC mod for players and modders

And for the following ones I can't even guess because I don't know the mods:

17. The Broken Lanthorn
41. Shards of Ice

[Blash2]

Wow, that's a real time answer, thanks 

I finish my work of digging in my WeiDU log:

43. The Gibberlings Three Anniversary Mod

44. A Quest in the service of Oghma

45. Ulrien of Cormyr - SagaMaster

46. Almateria's Restoration Project

47. NPC Flirt Packs

48. Romantic Encounters (BG2)

49. Nephele NPC Mod for BGII: SoA & ToB

50. Alternatives

51. Fading promises

52. Ding0's Quest Pack

53. The Wheels of Prophecy

54. Iylos NPC for EET

55. Crossmod Banter Pack for Shadows of Amn

56. Crossmod Banter Pack for Throne of Bhaal

57. Deepgnomes of the Sword Coast for EET

58. Hidden adventure

59. SoD Banter Restoration

60. Corwin NPC

That's all. The rest of my WeiDU log is composed of ruleset and AI tweaks that should have nothing to do with a content mod.

Thanks again 

[jastey]

@Blash2 ha, I missed the part about the following post.

Probably compatible:

Spoiler

43. The Gibberlings Three Anniversary Mod

46. Almateria's Restoration Project

47. NPC Flirt Packs

48. Romantic Encounters (BG2)

51. Fading promises

52. Ding0's Quest Pack

53. The Wheels of Prophecy

54. Iylos NPC

55. Crossmod Banter Pack for Shadows of Amn

56. Crossmod Banter Pack for Throne of Bhaal

58. Hidden adventure

59. SoD Banter Restoration

probably not:

49. Nephele NPC Mod for BGII: SoA & ToB
50. Alternatives

No idea:
44. A Quest in the service of Oghma
45. Ulrien of Cormyr - SagaMaster
57. Deepgnomes of the Sword Coast for EET
60. Corwin NPC - if that is a BG1 mod as I recall, then it would be compatible.

 

Keep in mind that I am judging content compatibility, not technical one: I guess all mods could be installed with I4E without technical problems.

 

One more thing:

50 minutes ago, Blash2 said:

54. Iylos NPC for EET

Please, use the original mod. It's updated for EET, no need to use Roxanne's rip-off. Same for Arath, Dace, Nephele, Ninde.

[Blash2]

I will follow your suggestions, thanks again 

[Blash2]

Roxanne's install tool marks as incompatible the following mods:
- Fading Promises
- Shadows over Soubar
- Back to Brynnlaw
- Almateria's Restoration Project

What do you think is the specific reason?

Edited April 13, 2020 by Blash2

[jastey]

Incompatible with I4E? Her tool pulls own versions of SoS, Fading Promises and Almateria's Restoration Project so I'm not even sure we are talking about the real mods.

Almateria's Restoration Project "Extended Waukeen's Promenade Cutscene" is explicitely compatible as stated above.

Back to Brynnlaw happens somewhat later in game - in chapter 6 after being to Brynnlaw the first time, doh. No idea why this would give problems with I4E if the other mod's story kicks in later.

Fading Promises: maybe the PC can tak with the undead paladin about the missing Imoen or somesuch, I haven't checked.

SoS: no idea what her version of the mod does.

That's the sad part, Roxanne likes to tagg (and proclaim) mods to be "buggy" or "incompatible", but never gives any specific reasons which makes the whole statement (and her work to identify bugs - if we assume she did that) mute.

 

[Blash2]

On 4/11/2020 at 11:51 AM, jastey said:

Keep in mind that I am judging content compatibility, not technical one: I guess all mods could be installed with I4E without technical problems.

Technical compatibility is what interests me the most. 

Speaking of content: "clean" SoD makes so Imoen tells me she's absent to study magic, to learn some spells. Too bad in my game Imoen is multiclassed ("NPCs Enhanced for Everyone" by Subtledoctor) and can already cast level 5 spells. So, content-wise can't be worse than this 

By the way, does your mod recognize multiclassing? I may be wrong, but I have the impression I read somewhere that the mod checks if Imoen is dual classed to mage or not, and modifies dialogues accordingly.

2 minutes ago, jastey said:

Incompatible with I4E? Her tool pulls own versions of SoS, Fading Promises and Almateria's Restoration Project so I'm not even sure we are talking about the real mods.

Almateria's Restoration Project "Extended Waukeen's Promenade Cutscene" is explicitely compatible as stated above.

Back to Brynnlaw happens somewhat later in game - in chapter 6 after being to Brynnlaw the first time, doh. No idea why this would give problems with I4E if the other mod's story kicks in later.

Fading Promises: maybe the PC can tak with the undead paladin about the missing Imoen or somesuch, I haven't checked.

SoS: no idea what her version of the mod does.

That's the sad part, Roxanne likes to tagg (and proclaim) mods to be "buggy" or "incompatible", but never gives any specific reasons which makes the whole statement (and her work to identify bugs - if we assume she did that) mute.

Thanks, very clear. Luckily I can choose which version to use, editing the tool .ini files in App\Config\Global.

[jastey]

Hm, from the technical point of view I would assume the mods are compatible. What I4E does is tagg a lot of reply options with "only show these if Imoen is really gone" and also changes the strings directly from "I am searching for Imoen" to "Iam searching for a mage called Irenicus" (paraphrased).

The first thing makes it imperative that I4E is installed as soon as possible - if there is only one mod before I4E that either adds reply options by EXTEND_TOP (-> shifts all existing reply options in state numbers) or makes an interjection (-> shifts the shown reply options to a state I cannot identify any longer), then I4E will not work as intended.

This is why I now recommend to treat I4E as a questmod *and* install it as soon as possible.

The content-wise compatibility can be a bummer too, though, as I4E and NPC Strongholds showed: if we are "only" talking about "NPCs greeting Imoen as if she was in Spellhold already" it might look weird and break immersion, but for NPC Stronghold this lead to a situation where Imoen's Thief Stronghold would cancel Aran's way to Brynnlaw in Chapter 3 which - if Bodhi was already rejected and Alternatives not installed is a bad situation. (This shoud be fixed in @Cirosan's new version of NPC Strongholds, btw.!)

Almateria's does the most on a technical point of view but when I had a very close look at compatibility I had the impression that the changed Promenade Cutscene (or others) would be the most crucial thing with regard to compatibility and that's totally fine (please refer to the comp notes regarding install order).

SoS I don't know enough to know why it could be incomatible content wise. Maybe @Weigo knows more about the content.

But technically, I would assume the mods to be compatible.

 

Concerning Imoen's class, I4E only checks whether Imoen is already MAGE_ALL for some dialogue content in SoD: Imoen will not talk about how she always wanted to learn magic if she is already a mage class in the Korlasz dungeon (or was it that she wouldn't talk about mage training if she was *not* a mage class yet. One of the two. So it makes sense.)

What else would you like to see with regard to Imoen's class being mage or not? So far, I4E does not include any kind of class changes and I would like to keep it that way, because it's the players' choice whether to dualclass her or not. But if you have more suggestions, please let me know.

[Blash2]

42 minutes ago, jastey said:

Hm, from the technical point of view I would assume the mods are compatible. What I4E does is tagg a lot of reply options with "only show these if Imoen is really gone" and also changes the strings directly from "I am searching for Imoen" to "Iam searching for a mage called Irenicus" (paraphrased).

The first thing makes it imperative that I4E is installed as soon as possible - if there is only one mod before I4E that either adds reply options by EXTEND_TOP (-> shifts all existing reply options in state numbers) or makes an interjection (-> shifts the shown reply options to a state I cannot identify any longer), then I4E will not work as intended.

This is why I now recommend to treat I4E as a questmod *and* install it as soon as possible.

I attached the install order that is set in Roxanne's install tool. I'm not sure, but considering what you wrote it seems not to be ok. All the other mods you don't see are after I4E of course.

42 minutes ago, jastey said:

The content-wise compatibility can be a bummer too, though, as I4E and NPC Strongholds showed: if we are "only" talking about "NPCs greeting Imoen as if she was in Spellhold already" it might look weird and break immersion, but for NPC Stronghold this lead to a situation where Imoen's Thief Stronghold would cancel Aran's way to Brynnlaw in Chapter 3 which - if Bodhi was already rejected and Alternatives not installed is a bad situation. (This shoud be fixed in @Cirosan's new version of NPC Strongholds, btw.!)

Very interesting. My intention is to make a "stable" EET game as soon as possible, so I'm not so sure about risking with a test version.

42 minutes ago, jastey said:

Concerning Imoen's class, I4E only checks whether Imoen is already MAGE_ALL for some dialogue content in SoD: Imoen will not talk about how she always wanted to learn magic if she is already a mage class in the Korlasz dungeon (or was it that she wouldn't talk about mage training if she was *not* a mage class yet. One of the two. So it makes sense.)

What else would you like to see with regard to Imoen's class being mage or not? So far, I4E does not include any kind of class changes and I would like to keep it that way, because it's the players' choice whether to dualclass her or not. But if you have more suggestions, please let me know.

Of course, I wasn't talking about class changes done by your mod. I perfectly agree it is out of the scope of it. What I was wondering is if a multi-classed Imoen is recognized as mage. In other words, if a multiclassed thief/mage Imoen will talk about how she always wanted to learn magic or not. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Blash2

[jastey]

7 hours ago, Blash2 said:

What I was wondering is if a multi-classed Imoen is recognized as mage. In other words, if a multiclassed thief/mage Imoen will talk about how she always wanted to learn magic or not.

This should not happen with I4E, i.e. Imoen should not talk about magic as if it's something new if she already has a mage class. Note: this does not apply if Imoen was not in group in BG1 and therefore the original game content kicks in in SoD, as I did not change any content in this case.

7 hours ago, Blash2 said:

I attached the install order that is set in Roxanne's install tool. I'm not sure, but considering what you wrote it seems not to be ok. All the other mods you don't see are after I4E of course.

Interesting. The BG1 mods should be safe. For the BGII ones, you could search the mod folders (for example using grepWin) for I_C_T or INTERJECT_COPY_TRANS and EXTEND_TOP (in d-files) and post the findings here.

[Blash2]

I'm seriously trying to learn to use Project Infinity.. It might be a hassle, but also editing different .ini files to modify the mod URL is a long work too. 

If I succeed in using Project Infinity, I'll set install order as you say (Imoen 4 Ever first) very simply. Let me know if you need me to do that search anyway.

 

In the meanwhile, here's a copy-paste of another answer I got on Roxanne's forum (if only there was only one community..):

"In case the option to rescue Imoen is missing, the path in the other mod is closed.

E.g. In Fading Promises the friendship/romance path will become unavailable.

In the case of Shadows over Soubar as another example, the whole mod becomes inaccessible. The quest givers will leave because you are a bhaalspawn seeking revenge and not one acting out of friendship and loyalty."

[jastey]

Interesting, thanks for quoting. So, there seems to be content incompatibility which is good to know. But:

1 hour ago, Blash2 said:

"In case the option to rescue Imoen is missing (...)"

I4E does not, and will not, alter other mods. And if I'll make the mods compatible, it will not be by just erasing reply options. The thought alone is insulting.

So you'd have to answer "I'm looking for my friend Imoen" while she is standing next to you, but the reply options are still there and available (and probably the ones the player would pick from the list of available reply options nevertheless. Just sayin'.)

[Blash2]

So we have to conclude SoS and I4E are not compatible? I'm not sure I understood what your conclusions are.

Anyway I tried doing the research you asked me for. I placed the 8 unpacked mods that are placed before I4E in the list I posted earlier in a folder, selected that folder in GrepWin and did a search with the strings you wrote. No result found, but I'm suspecting I'm doing something wrong, maybe I'm not doing the search in the proper way. Is there a particular way to do it? EDIT: I wasn't searching in the subfolders, lol.. gonna repeat properly.

Anyway, the quote was from this thread: http://baldursextendedworld.com/Vanilla_Forums/discussion/869/imoen-4-ever#latest

I don't want to feed any controversy (from your point of view, you'll find abundant material), it is just to try to spread any potentially useful information/consideration on the matter.

 

P.S. the more I look into it, the more switching from the former BWS to Project Infinity seems a huge work..

Edited April 13, 2020 by Blash2

[jastey]

12 minutes ago, Blash2 said:

So we have to conclude SoS and I4E are not compatible?

In the "isn't compatible content wise" it seems so, as the mod has reply options that assume Imoen is not around, like Alternatives does, too, for example. Same for Fading Promises, as it seems. The incomaptibility is not as grave as NPCs starting banters with Imoen that are meant to happen after her torture in Spellhold, but that is just my opinion.

 

12 minutes ago, Blash2 said:

it is just to try to spread any potentially useful information/consideration on the matter

Definitely, thank you for that!

[Blash2]

In the meanwhile I'm searching for a way to upload my GrepWin search results.. done.

@jastey

https://photos.app.goo.gl/mzK5xJmqQc3ZPCu18

https://photos.app.goo.gl/MCft7tFYZ3rF3UDH8

https://photos.app.goo.gl/7Cyc7Ag7bcnBYJxH6

Seems I was unsuccessful in obtaining an explanation why Almateria's Retoration Project has been marked as incompatible with Imoen 4 Ever: http://baldursextendedworld.com/Vanilla_Forums/discussion/869/imoen-4-ever#latest

I read the list of components and I can't figure it out myself: http://www.shsforums.net/files/file/1053-almaterias-restoration-project/

I'll probably risk installing both anyway..

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Blash2