Imoen 4 Ever Compatibility Notes

[Lightbringer]

Took a deeper look at the scripting for Imoen Romance, and I'm not at all sure why it would be technically incompatible with I4E, both mods out of the box. There are dialogues in Chateaux Irenicus. Then there are 3 dream sequences. The dream sequences trigger from a timer based on the Irenicus dream sequences. Imoen's presence due to I4E shouldn't affect that.

After the 3 dream sequences, there is no further Imoen Romance content until you rescue her. From what I can tell, all that content originates from triggers that involve chapter checks.

It does look like there's at least one block of code that simply has a chapter 4 check and an Imoen present check -- likely intended to trigger after rescue in Spellhold. As is, it could trigger upon arrival in Brynnlaw, but before Imoen is re-abducted. Potentially -- depends on the order of events executed by the game engine. If I4E abducts Imoen in cutscene mode immediately upon arrival, and before the Romance dialogue can be triggered, than it is compatible out of the box. Either way, a simple check of the ImoenStays variable above can ensure proper timing.

I'll keep digging, but most of this already looks really good.

Edit: Finished digging. Other than the block mentioned above, everything else is clear. There are banters or talks about certain quests you may undertake while she's there, but they're standalone conversations. She comments on your stronghold when you enter it.  Everything else is chapter-bound.  The closest thing is a comment in AR1500, the Spellhold exterior map. If Imoen is abducted upon setting foot in Brynnlaw, then she'll only be present in AR1500 if you've already rescued her. Compatible.

One line of code, checking for !Global("C#IM_ImoenStays","GLOBAL",1), at one spot, makes Imoen Romance technically compatible with I4E -- and even that might not be necessary.

I think I'll go test it and see what happens.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Lightbringer

[Lightbringer]

All right. I tested it, on vanilla BG2:EE, with only the latest I4E and Imoen Romance installed and unmodified. Incidentally, playing in story mode with godbows is a helluva rush

All the dreams -- the 3 vanilla dreams and the 3 Romance dreams -- occurred normally. Both the I4E and Romance banters fired appropriately. A couple journal entries for the Romance referenced her captivity in Spellhold, but that isn't a big deal for me.

Upon arrival in Brynnlaw, after Saemon's ambush, Imoen was spirited away as intended by I4E.  No untimely Romance conversations. It looks like the Romance will wait until you rescue Imoen from inside Spellhold.

By this test, I feel confident that I4E is out-of-the-box compatible with Imoen Romance. There may be a couple references here or there to events that occurred differently, but it has seemed minimal. Any references to Irenicus torturing her could easily refer to what occurred in the Chateau.

There was a hidden bonus.  The optional component in I4E to have Imoen react to the Irenicus dreams actually lines up exceptionally well with the Romance dream content. You and Imoen agree to find each other in your dreams, and then they get more ... personal. In fact, the way that the reactions are set up completely fits with the fact that you are dreaming about Imoen while she's standing next to you. Not only are the two mods technically compatible, but I find their pre-Spellhold content to be thematically compatible to the point of being complimentary. They fit very well together, story-wise.

I love how you wrote the dialogues for Imoen's return and existence at charname's side. The story beats, and the tension, are well preserved. Very nicely done, Jastey!

[jastey]

@Lightbringer thanks for the kind words!

I'm not sure the two mods will go together so well after Imoen is recovered from Spellhold, though. The dialogues from IR are written with Imoen being away: she doesn't know the other NPCs, she asks why it took the PC so long, etcpp... Playing the two mods together needs a lot of head canon and ignoring of wrong references in Imoen's dialogues and her interaction with other NPCs, I fear. Still, thaks for your enthousiasm and I hope you enjoy your playthrough!

[Lightbringer]

Sure thing!  As I've said before, I'm adept at head-canon. Besides, it sound like just one set of scenes, upon her rejoining the party. Could be easily explained by confusion from whatever Irenicus did. 

You kind of have to do this sort of thing anyway, especially in an EET playthrough. Take Jaheira. I say hello to her and Khalid in the FAI in BG1, then drop them straight away. Much later, in BG2, she's in a cage near me, talking as if we've been adventuring together forever. We haven't. Still, I take her along because I need a healer. After I do her lucrative Harper quests in Athkatla, I drop her again. I read her massively angry break-up dialogue, after all we've been through together since Candlekeep (not really), and head-canon it as an amicable departure between acquaintances who only just met.

If I can do that, I can certainly handle a confused Imoen for a scene   Hopefully, other folks who may have similar tolerances will now be able to enjoy both great mods together.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Lightbringer

[Endarire]

I came here to ask about the Imoen 4 Ever/Imoen Romance compatibility only to see that Lightbringer and jastey addressed it.   Thankee!

[Lightbringer]

Good deal!  Hopefully between the two of us, we made it clear exactly where the issues lie and where they don't.  There is definitely a need for head-canon in some places, and in other places, the mods actually enhance each other. I hope you enjoy it!

[Endarire]

@jastey
To confirm, for mods on your full compatibility list with Imoen 4 Ever (Edwin Romance, Breagar, etc.), should I4E be installed before or after them?

Thankee!

[Endarire]

To clarify, should Alternatives instead be installed before Imoen 4 Ever to avoid the need for the compat patch?

Thankee!

[jastey]

No.

The order should be: I4E BGII components - Alternatives - I4E Alternatives compatibility component.

EDIT: the readme says "Alternatives (independent of installation order)". So I guess the order of teh main mods doesn't matter, as long as the compatibility component of I4E is installed after Alternatives.

[Imiona]

Is it compatible with Chatty Imoen ?

[jastey]

@Imiona yes. Chatty Imoen adds more sound file lines to Imoen (in BG1, I think). It's fully compatible with Imoen4Ever.

[Connelly]

About something you said in Subtledoctor's EET thread:

13 hours ago, jastey said:

Imoen4Ever SoD components should go after the Boareskyr Bridge Scene for crossmod and generally be treated as an NPC mod. There is really no need to install the SoD components that early.

The most the readme said about the subject was "the main BGII component of this mod is to be treated as a quest mod (not a tweak mod) and should be installed before any other NPC mods that add interjections in SoA chapter 2&3." So I guided myself by that when settling on rough order of: Fixes > (EBG1, Another Fine Hell, SoD Tweaks, and Boarerskyr for BG1/EET,) Imoen4Ever > Quests > NPCs.

For clarity, I take the appropriate thing to do is to have the SoD components lead the NPC mods, and the BG2 components lead the quest ones?

[jastey]

10 minutes ago, Connelly said:

Fixes > (EBG1, Another Fine Hell, SoD Tweaks, and Boarerskyr for BG1/EET,) Imoen4Ever > Quests > NPCs.

For clarity, I take the appropriate thing to do is to have the SoD components lead the NPC mods, and the BG2 components lead the quest ones?

Yes, that sounds good.

The BGII part coming early(er) has two reasons: so other NPC mods can detect the story change by I4E, and that all questions regarding Imoen are successfully tagged before other NPC mods move them to their own interjections.

The SoD part coming after my other SoD quest mods is so that I4E can detect them and install crossmod stuff.

I think with your approach above you can fulfill both conditions without having to separate the install process of I4E.

[Connelly]

Cool, so I was on the right track then, thanks. I've been somewhat reluctant for some time to the idea of having Imoen back so soon in BG2 (just too accustomed to vanilla) but I've warmed up to it, hopefully this becomes an installation staple!

Considering how easy is to have components separate using PI, I think I'll separate quests mods in two sections for BG1 and BG2, which each group of I4E components leading each (except for the Alternatives patch I guess). For ease of maintaining lists for those alone and EET together, and in case a quest mod comes up that also considers I4E. Although I can't think of any doing it yet except for All Things Mazzy, and I'm not repeating that one again. Hopefully more mods will get on that in the future.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Connelly