v35 comments / questions (report a bug in a new topic, not here)

[DavidW]

16 minutes ago, Guest Hazzy said:

Alright, thanks for the answers! I was under the misconception that SCS is very focused pure AI, and that most of its components muck around rather little with the core powers of creatures, and hardly at all with their abilities, resistances, saving throws and the like.

SCS's readme is pretty explicit. That component is from the tactical-challenge section, which is described in the readme thus: 'Though the distinction isn't hard-and-fast, components in this section are less concerned with improving the intelligence of creatures, more concerned with increasing their abilities and numbers.'

19 minutes ago, Guest Hazzy said:

But this is a mod that (for example) bumps up Bassilus from original BG's level 5 and BG:EE's level 7 to a "mere" level 12... saying it's a slight increase!

Bassilus is level 7 in vanilla BG too; I don't know where you get 'level 5' from. If you want to say that 'slightly increased' should have been 'somewhat increased', I don't think that's unreasonable.

21 minutes ago, Guest Hazzy said:

Purely AI focused... yeah right...

XP in AD&D is exponential in level, so comparing XP isn't really a meaningful way to compare level.

21 minutes ago, Guest Hazzy said:

Purely AI focused... yeah right...

Again, I think the readme on the 'tactical challenges' section is clear that it's *not* pure AI, and the readme for that component is explicit that what it does is increase Bassilus's level (his AI is the standard 'smarter priest' AI). 

[DavidW]

6 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

though I think Bassilus calling on a summon from the Elemental Plane of Air is a bit out of character. If the encounter were more curated, I think a Skeleton Warrior or a Mummy or some Wights would make more sense. 

That's just SCS's general randomizing of spell choices: Aerial Servant is on the L6 'evil cleric' list, he's an evil cleric. I agree that if I was hand-designing the encounter I might not have gone that way. ToF (or rather, SCS with ToF installed) does a bit more customizing of clerics, and would give Bassilus Harm or Dolorous Decay at level 6.

 

[Guest Hazzy]

1 hour ago, DavidW said:

Bassilus is level 7 in vanilla BG too; I don't know where you get 'level 5' from. If you want to say that 'slightly increased' should have been 'somewhat increased', I don't think that's unreasonable.

XP in AD&D is exponential in level, so comparing XP isn't really a meaningful way to compare level.

Again, I think the readme on the 'tactical challenges' section is clear that it's *not* pure AI, and the readme for that component is explicit that what it does is increase Bassilus's level (his AI is the standard 'smarter priest' AI). 

I got that lvl 5 from the wiki, but it's not important. What's important is that now you "rectify" your statement by saying it's 'somewhat increased'. This is almost double the levels, and surely much more than double the "power". And that Aerial Servant was there all along I think, cause Bassilus had been silenced early and never cast a spell! I'd suggest to leave the vague words like "slightly" and "somewhat" and state the number. 5 levels. But make him unable to cast lvl 6 spells better, so level 10 Cleric at most and say "he has been given three (3) more levels".

Also, the invisible backstabbers are surely one of the most dangerous aspects of SCS. That Aerial Servant didn't backstab, but it was invisible and hits like a truck.

 

[DavidW]

1 hour ago, Guest Hazzy said:

And that Aerial Servant was there all along I think, cause Bassilus had been silenced early and never cast a spell!

SCS gets spellcasters with long-duration summoning spells to cast them before the party even show up. So it was there before you turned up, but that's because Bassilus cast it pretty much as soon as you landed on the map.

Listing the level increase given to Bassilus in the readme seems a good idea. I'm not especially inclined to reduce it, though; I haven't had substantial feedback to that effect and he's been level 12 pretty much the whole duration of SCS.

[Trouveur80]

1 hour ago, Guest Hazzy said:

I got that lvl 5 from the wiki, but it's not important. What's important is that now you "rectify" your statement by saying it's 'somewhat increased'. This is almost double the levels, and surely much more than double the "power". And that Aerial Servant was there all along I think, cause Bassilus had been silenced early and never cast a spell! I'd suggest to leave the vague words like "slightly" and "somewhat" and state the number. 5 levels. But make him unable to cast lvl 6 spells better, so level 10 Cleric at most and say "he has been given three (3) more levels".

Also, the invisible backstabbers are surely one of the most dangerous aspects of SCS. That Aerial Servant didn't backstab, but it was invisible and hits like a truck.

 

If you want only AI improvement, don't install tactical CHALLENGE components. 

And reading the readme before install could prevent nasty surprises during a run. 

[Delior]

1 hour ago, DavidW said:

Listing the level increase given to Bassilus in the readme seems a good idea. I'm not especially inclined to reduce it, though; I haven't had substantial feedback to that effect and he's been level 12 pretty much the whole duration of SCS.

I like the improved encounter as is - as I noted in my initial response to Hazzy, I've always felt like Bassilus should be a very difficult encounter given the substantial gold bounty offered for him.  

 

[Guest Hazzy]

1 hour ago, DavidW said:

SCS gets spellcasters with long-duration summoning spells to cast them before the party even show up. So it was there before you turned up, but that's because Bassilus cast it pretty much as soon as you landed on the map.

Listing the level increase given to Bassilus in the readme seems a good idea. I'm not especially inclined to reduce it, though; I haven't had substantial feedback to that effect and he's been level 12 pretty much the whole duration of SCS.

David, thank you for your modding efforts and for listening to the community

Let's be honest and either state in the readme what level he is explicitly or say "his cleric level has been significantly raised". Cause this is not slightly nor somewhat increased. Five levels is a big increase even in high or middle levels, but such an increase in low levels is even more impactful! And really, there was nothing my party could "tactically" do to avoid one permadeath, without fore-knowledge. And we were around level 3-4. We've given lots of battles. We killed Silke at level one, on first try and without fore-knowledge. Sure, two party-members died, but I could resurrect them, they weren't gibbed! And it cost 100 gold each at that level... That was a fair challenge, not like lvl 12 Bassilus with an Aerial Servant! Jeez... Even the Kobold Shaman in the Nashkel mines with his company is a bit of a stretch (and if you haven't installed harder Mulahey battle it's much more difficult than the finale) but I think that Aerial Servant tops everything I've seen so far...

Anyway, I'll probably find a way to use SCS to my liking, when I understand how exactly it works... It's so big and complicated, with many components one can choose to install and tweak or skip.

Cheers!

[polytope]

4 hours ago, DavidW said:

SCS gets spellcasters with long-duration summoning spells to cast them before the party even show up. So it was there before you turned up, but that's because Bassilus cast it pretty much as soon as you landed on the map.

Neither the level increase nor the pre-buff/pre-summon routine are a problem, but this particular effectively uninterruptible summon - an aerial servant - starts invisible and can kill most of your characters in one hit at this stage of the game (average damage 31 once Chant is included), which seems a little unfair. Pre-summoned mountain bears wouldn't have this problem, as they're visible and do less damage per hit (and probably per round, once AC is accounted for). It also wouldn't be a problem if he actually spent a combat round summoning the aerial servant, giving the player an opportunity to interrupt the spell or at least guess where it's about to appear.

Now of course. that would require a substantial rewriting of priest scripts, alternately, capping Basillus at level 10 and improving his skeletons a bit to compensate is another possibility.

Also, demiliches are fixed in the most recent version? Should I note my own modifications of them are obsoleted for combination with SCS?

[DavidW]

10 hours ago, polytope said:

Neither the level increase nor the pre-buff/pre-summon routine are a problem, but this particular effectively uninterruptible summon - an aerial servant - starts invisible and can kill most of your characters in one hit at this stage of the game (average damage 31 once Chant is included), which seems a little unfair.

That's fairly persuasive. And my original playtesting of that component is ancient, and probably in a period where BG1 creatures were using a narrower range of high-level spells. I'll consider a level adjustment.

10 hours ago, polytope said:

Also, demiliches are fixed in the most recent version?

Yes (I hope) though my thoughts of incorporating aspects of your component got triaged on time grounds, sorry. Possibly next version...

[TotoR]

Hi David,

Thank you for this huge update it seems really promising.

I browsed threw the readme, and I have seen, sadly, that the 2 new components that add spells are restricted to EE.

However, some of them seem to be need for oBG2 if some tweaks are installed: Mostly Telekinetic Strom if Abi-Dalzim's Horroid Wilting is nerfed. Could this be worked around ?
In addition, it seems that if IWD spells from SCS, IWDification (or other) are installed, those new spells will be part of mage and priest spell book. Will not that lead to empty spell slots in oBG2 ?

Lastly, additional tools for low level parties might be a solution to fight Aerial servent and thieves with lot of potions. E.g.: You could tweak faerie fire, Glitter dust, alicorn lance, and the like, to forbid invisibility to the target for a short duration.

Cheers

[Chitown Willie]

Hi David,

Another great big Thank You for all your hard work - We really appreciate.

A small request - Since we're talking about adjusting power levels, may we tone down the kobolds in Mulahey's lair?

I know the readme states:

"Mulahey's tough kobold allies are redesignated as "Kobold Elites" and improved a bit."

But I knew something was off when they survived this:

And taking a peek under the hood I suspect it was "KOBOLD7.CRE":

These stats blow away even the Kobold Chiefs/Guards from the 2E Monster Manual:

"There will also be a chief and 2-8 guards (AC 5; HD 1+1; hp 7 each; damage 1-8)."

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Chitown Willie

[DavidW]

2 hours ago, TotoR said:

I browsed threw the readme, and I have seen, sadly, that the 2 new components that add spells are restricted to EE.

However, some of them seem to be need for oBG2 if some tweaks are installed: Mostly Telekinetic Strom if Abi-Dalzim's Horroid Wilting is nerfed. Could this be worked around ?
In addition, it seems that if IWD spells from SCS, IWDification (or other) are installed, those new spells will be part of mage and priest spell book. Will not that lead to empty spell slots in oBG2 ?

At some point I should probably do at least a partial oBG2-ifying of the new spells. Many of them use EE opcodes but some don't and I could probably bring those over.

In the meantime:

- you might want to disable the restrict-Abi-Dalzim spell tweak on oBG2. It isn't disabled by default because on a technical level it works fine with oBG2 but I can see the balance case. You can do it for yourself by setting restrict_abi_dalzim to 0 in stratagems.ini.

- don't worry about empty spell slots: the new spells get swapped for extant spells if they're not present.

 

I'll consider that tweak suggestion (but not till v36!)

[DavidW]

1 hour ago, Chitown Willie said:

A small request - Since we're talking about adjusting power levels, may we tone down the kobolds in Mulahey's lair?

I haven't previously had anyone complain about Mulahey's kobolds, so I'm not that inclined to tone them down. (I don't have fidelity to AD&D as a goal in general.) But I'm open to counterarguments.

[boof]

What's with people crying for nerfs in here?
Your level 3 party couldn't handle Bassilus and got stomped? Ok, now you know not to come here at level 3. This isn't a Bethesda game.
The game needs more combat encounters that really push your party to the limits, not less. MY problem with Bassilus is that on some installs he'll get the Aerial servant, and on others it will be something harmless like harm (ironic) or heal. I've expressed the opinion in the past that randomized spells on some of these climactic encounters really hurt the experience depending on the install.
Asking for kobold nerfs? What the...
I understand some people like to play "naturally" and go to Nashkel Mines at level 1, but you installed a difficulty mod of your own volition, and should adjust your play accordingly. Not ask for things to be nerfed.

Edited November 30, 2023 by boof

[subtledoctor]

On 11/28/2023 at 10:04 PM, polytope said:

this particular effectively uninterruptible summon - an aerial servant - starts invisible and can kill most of your characters in one hit at this stage of the game (average damage 31 once Chant is included), which seems a little unfair

I actually don’t hate this. The initial attack makes the Servant turn visible so the rest of you party can target and handle it after that. The quest is given by a temple and the reward is enough to afford you a Raise Dead/Resurrection… it is actually a pretty good time in the game to begin engaging the systems related to party member death and resurrection.